And if there is an answer , where too in the future ? Knowing what we are now seeing
Agree or not , I think its an interesting subject

So heres my point

type of sires you have the likes of

Group 1. short course -sprint
El grand senor , magic sprite , Fabregas , Black Magic opal , vee man vane ,keybow

Group 2. Sprint
Barcia Bale , fernando ,Collision ,cosmic rumble ,lochinvar Marlow ,kc and all ,bella Infrared, Kinloch Brae ,wheres Pedro

Group 3. distance
Bekim bale , flying Penske , my bro Fabio ,Dyna double one ,Djays Octane, Buck fever , turanza bale

Its one thing to outline our industries short falls in terms of genetics thus producing our product with flaws but if you look at trends or groupings as above , is it any wonder when weighing it all up

Group 3 technically is where we should be heading in terms of breeding and strengthening our product for next generations , but listening or viewing or reading all accounts in general , IMOP you or we have all heard the problems ,some small some big , but they do come with set backs that in general arent in grp 2 or 1

Examples are lazy , late maturing , non chasing , quiet , shy , spookey ,soft etc

My question or observations are , the more strength added the more chance of wastage in purely percentages rising with bad traits that kind of cant be avoided or asssisted or changed to a degree

In comparison with grp 1or 2 , whos traits are obviously more aggressive and constant that mimics their own appetite for racing or chasing (high voltage)

So whats the balance ?

Do we write half a generation off and accept it knowing its flaws and knowing our bloods will be stronger next time around ?

Or do you play the higher percentages less wastage , but continue to keep our bloods stagnant or non improving strength so to speak

Cheers

It is strange their apparent race appetite suddenly dicipates to the extent of being the opposite witnessed in its own career on the track !

Hence more evidence a better % for investing your hard earned $ and 2 year time input in front running charges

Something non breeders, rearers cant relate too in terms of how deep can your pockets be or minutes in a day to perfect everything

Have you missed the last few months bullshyt , or is your head in the sand
Seriously

Disagree with your reasoning 100%

Maybe the lack of stamina relates back to the lack of chase we witness everyday, caused by the boffins stupid rules that have been recently introducted regarding the education of the greyhound.

If you can't get them to focus you won't get them to run 500m Plus.

Yes Steve I get the whole regs and rules when applied and played within these rules it has had an influence from pup to maiden starter and if not done to its full process could become a problem into their careers aswell

Like I said from the start it is a very broad answer or many

But keeping it as real and honest as possible , i am talking about 2 groups or style of Dogs , sprints and staying types or traits and why are there tenfold problems in general with the later ?

If you get around Steve and witness it from bullrings to draglures to trackwork youll see it has everything to do with sires Steve
Otherwise I wouldnt be able to watch 20 trials and pick the sire on half of them from watching one run !

With saying each new sire has a handicap in comparison to earlier sires just doesnt make sense

They have made the top 1 % in the country for ability and chase to earn the right to be a sire that is unsurprisingly expected to pass this on and they have done it like you say under harder rules then the previous , wouldnt this put them in better stead for delivering the goods?
This theory contradicts itself
Obviously just like on the track ,some are more gifted then others in the stud environment and they either can or they cant be a success
But again I am not questioning this area , I am talking about successful mates that are throwing ordinary manners all round that are making trainers say never again in my kennel !

After a few responses maybe it will never be answered as it seems some topics are off limit

Getting them to focus Steve starts at 4 mths old not put in a paddock till their 14mths
Putting a lead on for the first time when your loading em for breaker !
Wild !!!!!

Thats old school methods that dont cut it under todays conditions ,FACT

And its fair and responsible and respectful to the breed

Cheers

I would not dare comment on the technicalities of your post.

However, this is why - for over a decade - I have been calling for an independent panel to review and report annually on the State of the Breed. The need is much more acute now as more and more 300/400m races are dominating. It is a national challenge.

And the subject is not just limited to strength.

So far, attempts to push for more stamina - via bonuses for longer provincial races - have proved an abysmal failure, yet are being repeated as we speak by GRNSW.

For my two cents' worth, I think you are on the right track in trying to categorise sires by defining their strength capability. But how you merge that with the dam's qualities is beyond me (eg Tornado Tears).

But money will talk. Somehow, someone has to pick winners and subsidise sires or dams which are known to produce strength. It's not just a matter of 600/700m but of building more strength into the 500m market which is the very core of the industry. I see no other way and it has to be long term. There will be no overnight solution.

Do not adopt policies designed only to reduce re-homing needs. Fix the main problem and then go on to the next one.

The good news is as much as there's no guarantee on the amount of stamina they'll add, the next crop of sires should throw chase. Despite the mud thrown at a fair few newish sires if the dog had 40+ starts and was regularly hair , urine and blood tested you'd think their progeny shouldn't show too many flaws coming from the sire choice

He has started impressively. Another one that I think could make a dent once his pups are over 500+ is Blazin bomber

I agree, the post 2015 sires and damlines are the ones to look at for the future

Then take the three Waugh brothers or the three Chappell brothers - both lots coming from a sporting family background. Taken broadly, they all did well. Ditto for the Trbojevic three. Etc.

Anyway, if you shave a saluki it might look much like a greyhound.

In part, this tries to validate a theory put forward here that if we breed more dogs we will get more stayers. On the other hand, if we let things go we might end up with a population of Italian greyhounds or whippets??? Or greyhounds looking like a saluki.

(Don't laugh - check some of those awful poodle mixes going around).

Typically, the greyhound litter contains no more than one good dog. Exceptions to the rule do exist but they are uncommon.

But what I would much rather read is the annual report from the independent panel about THE STATE OF THE BREED. That would consider your points as well as many others.

PS: my brother and I were fairly similar and useful sportsmen but our two sisters were pretty ordinary - one was a definite non-chaser.

Bruce Teague wrote:

PS: my brother and I were fairly similar and useful sportsmen but our two sisters were pretty ordinary - one was a definite non-chaser.

My dad was a State runner just shy of Australian standards due to a knee injury.
My 2 sisters...one was a State Distance runner & the other similar but District. Me I was at best regional but I excelled at most sports. Obviously I was a Mid-sprinter with balls.

You can put A & B together but it doesn't been you'll end up with C. Agree.

A good point but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

You want something that can pay for its keep and put a few dollars in the till as well.

I need a reliable, consistent dog (preferably of quality but that's saying the same thing) that gives me a better chance than most of appearing in the placings. Otherwise I dismiss it.

They are not the same thing but both are necessary and useful in their way.

Back to the Test.

In my lifetime there has never been a better litter than Maudie's first go with Head Honcho in 1966. Eight of them and they all won Feature or Group races (Fraud, Fibba etc). All were pretty good beginners. They equate to the Chappells and Waughs.

Subsequent Maudie litters with Head Honcho (again), Malawis Prince, Prince of Thiefs (bad English), and Burst Asunder all fitted into the same old pattern - one good one at best and a number of also-rans. You will know better than me why that is the case. All I am doing is displaying the odds. These equate to the Teagues and Martins.

Not my figure but I understand only 1 in 27 makes it to a city track.

Each of us should appreciate the needs of the other, which often does not happen on this site.

PS: Do not rely on race stats in G-D - they are normally well short of the real totals. Go to GRV or GRNSW instead.

Hi Patrick,

Apologies for being off topic but was your brother wolfman. If he is I agree he couldnt run a quick100m lol but could take a fair mark and kick a bag full .