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Dapto Dogs closed - effective immediately page  1 2 3 4 5 

Carly Absalom
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 215
Dogs 0 / Races 0

15 Nov 2019 05:02


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EXTERNAL LINK
Interesting read.


Rod Hampton
Australia

Posts 1626
Dogs 2993 / Races 11816

15 Nov 2019 07:20


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clear as mud


Mark Donohue
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 3236
Dogs 6 / Races 0

15 Nov 2019 08:26


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Wow !


Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2092
Dogs 0 / Races 0

15 Nov 2019 19:30


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Carly Absalom wrote:

EXTERNAL LINK
Interesting read.

Carly,

Mestrov has just announced he had a big victory.

I didn't read it that way. Wait for next week.



Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2092
Dogs 0 / Races 0

16 Nov 2019 03:48


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Carly Absalom wrote:

EXTERNAL LINK
Interesting read.

Carly,

I now notice that DAHS has claimed it had a victory in the Supreme Court. Previously GRNSW also claimed that honour.

In fact, nobody has won anything much other than a continuation of the present armed standoff.



Ian Bradshaw
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 251
Dogs 6 / Races 0

16 Nov 2019 04:09


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Bruce Teague wrote:

Carly Absalom wrote:

EXTERNAL LINK
Interesting read.

Carly,

I now notice that DAHS has claimed it had a victory in the Supreme Court. Previously GRNSW also claimed that honour.

In fact, nobody has won anything much other than a continuation of the present armed standoff.

Not quite right Bruce, the lawyers are laughing all the way to the bank.




Jack Ogilvie
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 15478
Dogs 0 / Races 1

16 Nov 2019 19:36


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Jack Ogilvie wrote:

Rumour has it ,the track might not close.watch this space.

From Nov 16 .The rumour was right.


Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2092
Dogs 0 / Races 0

17 Nov 2019 02:51


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A big point sitting in the background is whether or how a greyhound club can be viable or even profitable. Dapto is an odd one out here as it (in theory) is master of its own destiny because it owns or controls the lot, land and all. Most other tracks are tenants of the government in one form or another, either directly or via a particular department or local council.

The over-riding theme is that dog racing is not capable of generating sufficient support on its own to support the facility. Other tenants are essential and many tracks have them although they are often not very large. But the bits and pieces ad up and everybody gets by.

Arguably, this worked fine in pre-SKY days when hundreds or even thousands flocked to the track, bought beer and pies and had a bet or two. Not any more. What facilities that do exist are better called trainers lounges. There are some exceptions (Ballarat is one, where you could run an under 12s footie match inside the building. Don't call them grandstands, as they seldom exist. Occasional group nights-out are about all you can hope for to bolster the takings.

That takes you to modern-day Dapto where the club says it is losing money to run the dogs and cross-subsidising it from other activities. In turn, the major part of that dog income emerges from the GRNSW bunker as it distributes TAB and bookies commissions.

Thats where you get to the heart of it. 30 years of SKY coverage took away most of the reason for going to the track and most of the extra cash that kept the club going. But that clip of the betting commission has not kept pace with inflation or made up for the shortfall. Club and authority expenses are forever increasing so clubs now depend on other, unrelated income to balance the books.

The gallops are in much the same boat (land sales have sometimes helped) while the trots are dying a slow death. Betting growth is just not there, despite occasional boosts from state governments keen to keep their tax income rising like speeding fines.

To pluck a figure out of the air, betting (and prizemoney) should be 50% higher than it is but it falls well short primarily because administrators and clubs are too preoccupied with moving pieces of paper back and forth to worry about going out into the big world and finding more customers. This is the cargo cult philosophy sit back and wait for the big ship to appear over the horizon and disgorge all the goodies. That never worked in the Pacific Islands and it wont work for racing, especially not greyhound racing. If you want more income you have to go out and find it. There is no other option.

So, irrespective of the legalities, Dapto is just the canary in the coal mine.

The business of greyhound racing is on borrowed time. If you want a test, think about this prospect. If you put the whole of it up for sale, would a Packer or a Murdoch want to buy it, and what would they pay? If they did buy, what is the first thing they would do?




Garry Comans
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 232
Dogs 13 / Races 79

17 Nov 2019 03:57


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Hi Bruce,
To answer one part of your question, if the Clubs owned the land, yes Murdoch, Westfield or some foreign investor would buy it especially if located where Dapto Dogs happens to be.
From what I understand without the revenue monies from local and international streaming rights, and the TAB distribution in its various forms, most greyhound tracks could not financially exist.
Other revenues are of course required to supplement that shortfall. However as we saw in the case of Moss Vale and now perhaps Dapto, the once ever friendly A&H Societies and other Owners may have different ideas
Do I have a resolution, well no, but I do like many on this forum have some ideas.




Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2092
Dogs 0 / Races 0

17 Nov 2019 22:18


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Garry,

It won't be easy and it will take a lot of time.

The business model will have to revolve around the fact that other people hold the land in trust for the community (as at Dapto). That's unlikely to change. So we first have to create support from that community/council if it does not already exist. That effort aligns with what we need to do for all sorts of other reasons.

Secondly, the existing rights holders are seldom structured in a typical commercial manner. They just take orders from users for a particular date. In any event the concept of a local ag and show society is dated. Country "Showgrounds" are on the way out or are already gone - replaced by other systems in this day and age (eg ag field days, better football or rodeo fields etc). Yet that transformation has virtually gone unnoticed by planners.

Third, as the lead tenant, greyhound racing needs to sponsor an effort within the community to better utilise the space - deeper and wider - using any device which encourages traffic flows through the facility.

Fourth, to do that the ag society must be upgraded to adopt a more commercial model, usually with the support from the local council. Normally, that would also involve improving grandstands and similar facilities. Some examples are available in Sydney with the old Showgrounds (movies etc) and the new collection at Homebush. Ideally, you need to start with a hive of activity and then plonk a greyhound track on top of it - if you get my drift.

The only mob which can organise this and follow thru on it is GRNSW. That is primarily why I keep calling for radical reform - it will not happen under the present structure (or Act).

In a way, it would be a bit like the wool industry - once effectively controlled by a central selling desk and distant graziers but now reformed into a commercially centred operation/sales/research company which developed Woolmark, mixed fibre materials, haute couture models and all the rest of it.

The route to follow is political but there are a lot of pollies who represent regional electorates, a few of whom voted against the Baird ban so you know where their heart is. But first, someone has got to recognises there is a long term problem and try to do something about it. The alternative is 1950, repeat, repeat ...




Mark Donohue
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 3236
Dogs 6 / Races 0

17 Nov 2019 23:17


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Id like to see the Annual Report that is late by 18 days. Its with the Minister who has to produce it to both Houses, but it cant be amended so what is the delay Mr Mestrov (GRNSW) ?


Carly Absalom
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 215
Dogs 0 / Races 0

18 Nov 2019 03:13


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Bruce Teague wrote:

Carly Absalom wrote:

EXTERNAL LINK
Interesting read.

Carly,

I now notice that DAHS has claimed it had a victory in the Supreme Court. Previously GRNSW also claimed that honour.

In fact, nobody has won anything much other than a continuation of the present armed standoff.

Yeah, I'm not sure either side should be claiming victory.

It did clear up the timing of the registration though. GRNSW extended it after Dapto announced they would cease racing.

Also means Dapto will keep Thursdays for the foreseeable future.



Mark Donohue
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 3236
Dogs 6 / Races 0

18 Nov 2019 10:15


 (3)
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We will know more after Wednesday 20 November for both Court matter and Annual Report.

GRnSW is in front atm. Can they hold on and at what cost? I wonder if they can back up within seven (7) days?


Mark Donohue
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 3236
Dogs 6 / Races 0

21 Nov 2019 22:47


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No news on the court matter, but the 2018-2019 Annual Report is out now. Go to GRNSW website for further details.

A very quick glance shows a mixed result.


Carly Absalom
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 215
Dogs 0 / Races 0

04 Dec 2019 08:51


 (1)
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They've been back in Court.

EXTERNAL LINK


Carly Absalom
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 215
Dogs 0 / Races 0

04 Dec 2019 09:39


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Media release from GRNSW
EXTERNAL LINK
Media release from Dapto
EXTERNAL LINK


Sandro Bechini
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 19486
Dogs 15268 / Races 1856

04 Dec 2019 19:23


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As GRNSW have stated, they know the costs involved in running a greyhound meeting and the associated services around it

They have a data map over many years of over 30 tracks to compare Dapto's performance to, including Dapto's own performance over the years

I think that is a pretty fair point

Until the Administrator is able to get a hold of the actual financial records of running the whole facility to ensure that the A & H's greyhound activities income and expenses were being recorded and accounted for properly then this will continue to be a court battle

Whether that Administrator is the right person or not is really irrelevant, there would need to be an Administrator appointed regardless, given the circumstances

The fact that there was a flash meeting to close the facility for greyhound racing, the issue of closed memberships and resignations, potential redevelopment of the site etc only exacerbates the issues

The main point being that the A & H not releasing financial records only fuels the suspicion that there has been something to hide, it doesn't mean there is, but it certainly doesn't help the situation and adds to the mistrust that has occurred

Any party, in any transaction being open and transparent, usually has zero to worry about





Steven Martin
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 7681
Dogs 180 / Races 66

04 Dec 2019 19:41


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Exactly Sandro.

You know the old saying.
Where there's smoke, there's fire & the A & H can only be seen at this point to be fanning the flames by not cooperating.
If they've got nothing to worry about....hand over the records.
It's pretty simple.


Sam Watson
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 315
Dogs 0 / Races 0

04 Dec 2019 22:07


 (1)
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I'd say they are in a bit of strife.. missing equipment and 'expensive' labour etc.. smells like someone has been cooking books.

Dapto have shot themselves in the foot by their release of closing the track down otherwise nobody was looking at them.


Mark Donohue
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 3236
Dogs 6 / Races 0

04 Dec 2019 23:02


 (0)
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Both parties are quietly confident. So, it's back in February for Hearing. Wow, what a cost it will be.....

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