I wld never underestimate how that primary linebreeding intensity in x to Lemon Soda thru different individuals, influenced that litter Steven. Stands out even more with Mildean being predominantly an outcross. I think from memory Lemon Soda's influence in x on litters was running at 55% as far as producing city grade performers was concerned. I know you knew that :)

imo you give yourself a chance of producing a decent city grade conveyance if you introduce solid 500m linebreeding principles through different individuals, such as Lemon Soda in the x path in your case, into the pedigree.

"Bruce the benefit of your experience please example grv 650 meters turns 30k what % goes to grv. Is this % constant. Are there figures ie time of day/ turnover figures? Sky 1 v sky 2 figures. Specific tracks etc. I note that bold grease has attracted 29 dogs only what does that tell you. Thanks in advance"

I make a practice of always responding to correspondence but this time it would help if you re-wrote your queries in English with punctuation.

Otherwise (a) I am sure the GRV database could help and (b) you may have missed the memo advising that I have shut down my database. However, Vic TAB deductions vary from 14.5% to 25.0%, part of which goes to GRV.

Meantime, two points; gauging performance by race to race turnover is a lost cause due to the mug content and (b) good examples of poorly located boxes are Ballarat 390m, 545m and 660m. The worst of those would be the 660m (as at Warrnambool, Bendigo, Shepparton).

29 nominations for the Bold Trease tell me nothing much. But it would be an interesting side note to check which of them run faster or slower in the final than in the heat 7 days earlier. (The average is two thirds slower). On current form, none of them is capable of flash times anyway.

Geoff,

After a Herculean effort I can support your claim about betting turnover at Warrnambool - sort of.

Using Vic figures only, the Nov 7 meeting included one 650m race which attracted $14k for Win and about $47k all up. A single 390m race (out of 5) attracted $16k and $58k resp. Other races were all fairly normal - ie $6k or $7k for the Win.

The big 390m take was in Race 1 for Maidens so you can draw your own conclusions about that. The 650m race was nothing special.

The most likely answer is that a small group of blokes targeted these two races only and, in effect, ran a book against themselves. That is not uncommon for pros. I am not sure about their final profits because the winners paid only $2.70 and $2.40 resp. Of course, what happened with the corporates is unknown.

Whatever their reasons I would confidently say the pattern has nothing to do with the distances of the races - only that the conditions favoured what these guys wanted to bet on. They might as well have been racing frogs.

Incidentally, the above races had 7 and 8 starters resp so you may be thinking of another time. However, the same principles apply.

Nevertheless, my guess is that decent customers (not many left) would always prefer longer races. They certainly did once upon a time. And even mugs like to get a good run for their money.

(Hayden - please note).

Whatever their reasons I would confidently say the pattern has nothing to do with the distances of the races - only that the conditions favoured what these guys wanted to bet on. They might as well have been racing frogs.

What planet are you on now you are making up stories to back your Diatribe ....For god sake stop making up stupid scenarios and stick to the facts ...

You are incredible Bruce ...

Did you know these Guys Bruce if not then why are you making up a story based on events you think would've happened

The dictionary definition of "diatribe" is ... "a bitter and violent denunciation, attack or criticism". That does not apply here

So could you select another abusive word for your future commentary?

Equally, I said "the most likely answer ...". In English, that means other explanations are possible but less likely. While you are at it, you might tidy up your punctuation as it makes the copy harder to read.

Lastly, I gather you are not too familiar with punting practices these days. That being so, it would be better not to comment at all.

Fair dinkum...Please read the topic title.

Anyway, 520m racing is definitely not a thing of the past.
Tonights racing at Sandown is quality.
I know, I know, you should expect quality for the Melbourne Cup heats but this is the pinnacle of our sport and there will always be top quality 500m dogs.
Track record gone tonight. Freakish.

It's the continued obvious, deliberate attacks from others that seem to flow from thread to thread that deflate the conversation and destroy the reason why we are all here....Talk about GREYHOUNDS.

And sure & without naming anyone once again, some may wonder & even drimble from time to time, but don't we all.

The general rule should be, if you can't say anything nice then be constuctive....not a bitch.

Gotta get to work but yours & Jamie's points about Victoria are spot on.
Victoria is on the move.

"Bruce, I know from your past posts that you are not a Betfair man, but looking at that Wenty meeting, the average hold on Betfair for each of the races was a touch over $21,500 and the staying race that you referred to held $20,945.And...that's at much lower market percentages than the tote or corporates, typically 100-103% before commission.A much better chance of getting set and at a better price!"

I have to plead ignorance about the detail of Betfair turnover, mainly because it is too hard to keep up with and Betfair is not a good citizen in this respect (it refuses to give the ARB contributions to the Fact Book, for example). However I am aware that it is quite popular and it does attract a lot of non-Australian betting (although I doubt the investors know much about the dogs they are betting on).

Even so, that is not much different to the position with corporates where it is all rumour, innuendo and rip-offs. To say nothing of lower commission rates.

Back to the Test score.

Whether on betting trends or 500m or 700m racing, we are talking about the need for management information which then should be used to create industry objectives and suitable methods to achieve them.

So far as I am aware, the industry has no strategic objectives. I dismiss so-called strategic plans as they are no more than waffle designed to satisfy government bureaucratic requirements (and no scores are kept anyway).

This is also why everyone falls in a heap when something nasty hits the fan.

It is also why grading decisions or major prize money allocations are ad hoc - ie with little attention to what they might lead to in the long run. As I said, it has all grown up like Topsy.

Suffice to say - if more and better long distance racing is a good thing then all decision-making should be directed to that end. And if the stamina of the breed is in decline then measures should be taken to reverse and improve that trend. Neither is happening.

Note: I am not anti-Betfair, quite the opposite, as I have often written. The problem is that the industry is not flexible enough to fit them I into the system effectively. That's a management challenge that has not really been met.

Richmond were trialling on a Sunday morning however, this didn't happen today. Why????

Several trainers travelled great distances and no trials.

Not good Jan!!!

And in a nutshell there you have your answer uncle Steve

Gavin,

I see where you are coming from and there is an element of truth in your economics - but it is only a part story.

First, there is some differentiation by distance in week to week prize money by distance (not enough perhaps).

Second, a short course preference works only for good beginners who make up perhaps less than half the total.

Third, you are assuming a win on every occasion but that is less likely in short trips where interference is higher.

Fourth, you have to discount your profit projections because of the unusually high prizes for many 500s, and (less so) for any potential breeding barn income. Few will get there but they do affect the mathematics.

But, certainly, if the industry wants more stamina then it must start pushing relatively more cash into 500m and further.