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Carly Absalom Australia (Verified User) Posts 215 Dogs 0 / Races 0 16 Jan 2020 07:09
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EXTERNAL LINK You have until the end of March to provide feedback.
Valerie Glover Australia (Verified User) Posts 239 Dogs 2 / Races 0 18 Jan 2020 03:54
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Hi Carly,the mention of a " ten year period for construction " would of been a better method of introducing a retrospective enforcement of kennel and fencing, etc the way it came into force before, Maybe ,and only maybe participants and others are being heard? Bob Glover
Carly Absalom Australia (Verified User) Posts 215 Dogs 0 / Races 0 19 Jan 2020 10:00
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Agree Bob. However, not sure why there isn't just a grandfather clause on existing kennels that meet welfare and safety needs.
I would also suggest people read the whole Code and not just the summaries.
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 19 Jan 2020 11:31
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Carly Absalom wrote:
Agree Bob. However, not sure why there isn't just a grandfather clause on existing kennels that meet welfare and safety needs.
I would also suggest people read the whole Code and not just the summaries.
Page 17 of the Code
Advisory information:
Participants may delay compliance with Standard 5.8 of this Code, as far as it relates to construction:
- for up to ten years from the date that this Code comes into effect;
or - where any welfare or safety issues relating to non-compliance facilities are identified at the premises, until a date specified by the Commission.
This means that participants who are required to construct new kennels in order to comply with standard 5.8 of this Code have up to ten years to do so, unless welfare issues attributable to non-compliance with Standard 5.8 are identified at their premises.
The construction of any new kennelling facilities, following commencement of this Code, must comply with Standard 5.8.
Carly Absalom Australia (Verified User) Posts 215 Dogs 0 / Races 0 19 Jan 2020 12:55
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I get that Sandro and I agree with new kennels having to meet standards and any existing ones that pose welfare and safety concerns. (Though given all the inspections past few years I can't imagine there is many of them.)
My point is that if they check your kennels and they don't meet the standards but there are no welfare and safety concerns, why even have a 10 year timeframe? Just leave them as they are if there are no concerns.
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 19 Jan 2020 19:25
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Carly Absalom wrote:
I get that Sandro and I agree with new kennels having to meet standards and any existing ones that pose welfare and safety concerns. (Though given all the inspections past few years I can't imagine there is many of them.)
My point is that if they check your kennels and they don't meet the standards but there are no welfare and safety concerns, why even have a 10 year timeframe? Just leave them as they are if there are no concerns.
That's what will happen if there is no concerns
The objective is for all kennels to eventually meet the standards One possible example is where the racing kennels are compliant and sactisfactory in every way except that they may be 2.98m2 instead of 3m2
These will more than likely given the 10 years to comply to the minimum standard but don't take it as gospel..that is but one of the many possible scenario's that were discussed in AWC meetings
That's why there is 10 years grandfathering put in, to cover any situations that don't quite fit but are suitable for now, so participants aren't immediately disadvantaged.
But in all honesty 3sqm has been in the old Code of Practice for a fair while now so there should not be many racing kennels impacted
The new 3.5sqm kennel size for breeding greyhounds was increased to comply with POCTA Breeding Regulations
If participants take exception to this increase and find that this is not suitable or costly for them to change or can produce evidence that the increase in size of breeding kennels to 3.5sqm is not a welfare concern, then this should be mentioned in their submission
But certainly provide examples of what you are trying to illustrate in your own submission to the Draft
I hope all participants from all over Australia take the time to read the draft carefully and provide good constructive criticism to the Commissioners for the areas where they think it will adversely impact their lives in caring for their greyhounds
Even if you live in another State you may have greyhounds that race or are bred in NSW
Daryl Barrett Australia (Verified User) Posts 1739 Dogs 1 / Races 0 20 Jan 2020 00:25
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G'day Sandro,very well explained..at least i think so,personally, i think that giving participants 10 years to make changes necessary to be compliant is more than generous,again it's very simple,"If they don't meet the standard's,regardless of whether there is no concerns re welfare & safety,then they have to be made compliant...very,very simple to understand).cheers mate.
Sandro Bechini wrote:
Carly Absalom wrote:
I get that Sandro and I agree with new kennels having to meet standards and any existing ones that pose welfare and safety concerns. (Though given all the inspections past few years I can't imagine there is many of them.)
My point is that if they check your kennels and they don't meet the standards but there are no welfare and safety concerns, why even have a 10 year timeframe? Just leave them as they are if there are no concerns.
That's what will happen if there is no concerns
The objective is for all kennels to eventually meet the standards One possible example is where the racing kennels are compliant and sactisfactory in every way except that they may be 2.98m2 instead of 3m2
These will more than likely given the 10 years to comply to the minimum standard but don't take it as gospel..that is but one of the many possible scenario's that were discussed in AWC meetings
That's why there is 10 years grandfathering put in, to cover any situations that don't quite fit but are suitable for now, so participants aren't immediately disadvantaged.
But in all honesty 3sqm has been in the old Code of Practice for a fair while now so there should not be many racing kennels impacted
The new 3.5sqm kennel size for breeding greyhounds was increased to comply with POCTA Breeding Regulations
If participants take exception to this increase and find that this is not suitable or costly for them to change or can produce evidence that the increase in size of breeding kennels to 3.5sqm is not a welfare concern, then this should be mentioned in their submission
But certainly provide examples of what you are trying to illustrate in your own submission to the Draft
I hope all participants from all over Australia take the time to read the draft carefully and provide good constructive criticism to the Commissioners for the areas where they think it will adversely impact their lives in caring for their greyhounds
Even if you live in another State you may have greyhounds that race or are bred in NSW
Valerie Glover Australia (Verified User) Posts 239 Dogs 2 / Races 0 20 Jan 2020 03:14
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MY point Sandro, Yes we see what it gives us to comply with, but could you think for a moment how many participants actually gave in when the previous code was unforced , in a retrospective manner,ie this it what you need to have now ;not the future, so really we have been dealt a very generous gift of 10 yrs to comply, as well some of the breeding areas,and fence heights etc are back to the old days, perimeter fences, I do wonder if this has been drafted carefully , and only hope we don't see changes from time to time ; Bob Glover
Jack Ogilvie Australia (Verified User) Posts 15480 Dogs 0 / Races 1 20 Jan 2020 19:26
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And how many new people will enter Greyhound racing with cost and compliance issues..mmm A good way to kill greyhound racing.
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 20 Jan 2020 19:44
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Valerie Glover wrote:
MY point Sandro, Yes we see what it gives us to comply with, but could you think for a moment how many participants actually gave in when the previous code was unforced , in a retrospective manner,ie this it what you need to have now ;not the future, so really we have been dealt a very generous gift of 10 yrs to comply, as well some of the breeding areas,and fence heights etc are back to the old days, perimeter fences, I do wonder if this has been drafted carefully , and only hope we don't see changes from time to time ; Bob Glover
Bob
Its been drafted to try and have minimal financial impact on the costs of keeping greyhounds without removing the main welfare and integrity issues
Basically everything that people do with their dogs now is documented in a way that people can clearly see and piece together, not so much for older participants who do a lot of this as second nature, but for newer participants
The main areas of change are about socialization of puppies at various age bands and preparing a dog for rehoming as well as the kennels size for breeding greyhounds
Its your sport, and this is your Code.
It has to provide a framework for what makes sense to you in practice as being responsible for your greyhounds
People please take the time to read the Draft Code and have your constructive say about things you aren't comfortable with or not sure about.
Valerie Glover Australia (Verified User) Posts 239 Dogs 2 / Races 0 21 Jan 2020 03:52
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Sandro Previous code had, perimeter fencing at 1.5m , with mesh rearing yards of 50mm hole size ,; apart from these minor's Id like to think I would always be kept in a 16-26 deg climate , even your nights get down to less where ever you live ,or are transported. can you ask Gladis if the new light rail would be sure to provide this climate, for the trip , pups 8/16 weeks to be socialized , and lead weekly , hope big breeders are looking to pay staff, the country will be looking back to a higher employment level, Bruce could get back to job,?? Did you hear me Bruce a job for you in this , Get the paper Bruce you are in again, more punting money old fellow ? Bob Glover
Sam Watson Australia (Verified User) Posts 315 Dogs 0 / Races 0 21 Jan 2020 03:59
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Jack Ogilvie wrote:
And how many new people will enter Greyhound racing with cost and compliance issues..mmm A good way to kill greyhound racing.
If people can't be compliant then they won't be given a license. Simple as that. The code looks fair to me and doesn't require anything super intensive or expensive. If they can't meet basic stuff why should they be looking after animals?
Being in greyhounds is a privilege not a right. Welfare for too long was left by the doorstep in favour of people trying to make money but now it has to flip. That's the way society is going and the more people kick and scream the harder it is going to be to find a medium that works for everyone thats fair on the dogs and profitable enough for its participants.
Its definitely not profitable if it gets shut down..
Valerie Glover Australia (Verified User) Posts 239 Dogs 2 / Races 0 21 Jan 2020 04:28
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Sandro and Sam, We all know , that during this consultation period it is there for the people participants of our sport to make their contribution/ for the betterment of the sport for all, ;Having, , said this ,I only bring these issues to light , because it is widely known by you all, and understood by most , " the best way to grow the sport ,is to increase no's; of dogs/owners and punters. " Back to the grass roots breeding has to increase, the follow on to that is owners will increase no,s more dogs , more racing no,s ,more punting ; More meet with same dogs does nothing for income to anybody ; Not to anybody that is likely to put much into the cycle needed? Give breeders a fair go , and we could grow, put hurdles in front, and they will continue to drop out, ; New trainers are coming into the sport , but without dogs bread and reared to give a fair chance of competing , these trainers will only have a drop out rate higher than some uni's , Bob Glover
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 21 Jan 2020 04:56
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Bob
The Code puts in place practices for caring for and keeping greyhounds to be able to give them maximum chance to race and also to be rehomed
Its got nothing to do with growing the industry finances etc, ...that is a whole different argument that you are pitching
I don't see how a document to care and keep greyhounds is turning people away in droves.
Perhaps its the cost of buying a place near Sydney to train dogs to start with is the biggest problem faced by newer participants and older ones who do have property are starting to sell out to developers.
GRNSW is starting to realize that prizemoney needs to be regionalized to allow people in rural areas, where tracts of land are cheaper and where greyhounds are typically being trained, to access TAB prizemoney.
Taree is the latest addition to the rural TAB circuit in NSW, following on the heels o fGunnedah and Temora.
However, this new Code, is a fairly simple document, pretty easy to read and understand and there is nothing that is too onerous in it.
It is there to act as a platform to encourage old and new participants to be part of the modern era of greyhound racing and breeding.
Bill Deguara Australia (Verified User) Posts 215 Dogs 2 / Races 0 21 Jan 2020 06:29
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Sandro Bechini wrote:
Bob
The Code puts in place practices for caring for and keeping greyhounds to be able to give them maximum chance to race and also to be rehomed
Its got nothing to do with growing the industry finances etc, ...that is a whole different argument that you are pitching
I don't see how a document to care and keep greyhounds is turning people away in droves.
Perhaps its the cost of buying a place near Sydney to train dogs to start with is the biggest problem faced by newer participants and older ones who do have property are starting to sell out to developers.
GRNSW is starting to realize that prizemoney needs to be regionalized to allow people in rural areas, where tracts of land are cheaper and where greyhounds are typically being trained, to access TAB prizemoney.
Taree is the latest addition to the rural TAB circuit in NSW, following on the heels o fGunnedah and Temora.
However, this new Code, is a fairly simple document, pretty easy to read and understand and there is nothing that is too onerous in it.
It is there to act as a platform to encourage old and new participants to be part of the modern era of greyhound racing and breeding. SANDRO .DON;T YOU THNK THAT increasing the number of greyhounds being bred would be a better start than introducing new tracks , We can all see that most clubs now are extending nomination times and are racing with smaller fields each and every week , as a matter of fact some meetings are being cancelled because lack of nominations, Introducing breeders bonuses etc would be a far better way at this present situation, to encourage breeders and improve the greyhound shortage that we are experiencing,just my thoughts mate .
Carly Absalom Australia (Verified User) Posts 215 Dogs 0 / Races 0 21 Jan 2020 07:08
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Whilst it may be simply written, I would argue that in some clauses it is hard to understand what the complete impact will be without more information, which is why it is important people read it carefully, think about how it will impact on them and provide feedback.
Example 7.15. Greyhounds must not be muzzled for more than two hours a day, unless at the written direction of a veterinarian. So if you are in a late race and will be kenneled for more than two hours and you use a muzzle will the GWIC on track vet provide the written direction or will you need to get a written direction from your vet, which of course will come at a cost?
The lack of certainty over what is a heritable disease or defect and what is required (evidence etc) for something to be defined as such by the Commission is another one. I would suggest people carefully read clauses 3.6 and 4.2 and the definition of heritable disease and defects before providing feedback.
I think it is also important for people to note that, according to the wording in the Code, it appears that you need to move your greyhound to the new breeding kennel size as soon as they are registered for breeding. This may impact on people who register for breeding whilst still racing. (I assume that this happens because of clause 8.14).
Valerie Glover Australia (Verified User) Posts 239 Dogs 2 / Races 0 21 Jan 2020 07:43
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Hi Guy's , we are all striving for what we support, and have been supporting for many many decades ??Please keep the fresh info coming forward as this is what the consultation period is about; ie not crossing swords but bringing points out so we have ideas put forward for those that go forward with them have thoughts of ours to carry forward , thanks all go forward is my plan for us , over 65 yrs tells me not to walk away and let the anti's win a move ,Bob Glover
Malcolm Smart Australia (Verified User) Posts 12802 Dogs 19 / Races 34 21 Jan 2020 08:02
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The game will be gone in 10 years , over regulated, overpriced and overtaken by rspca wannabe's...
Daryl Barrett Australia (Verified User) Posts 1739 Dogs 1 / Races 0 21 Jan 2020 08:09
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Sandro,,i think some people just don't get it...or choose to put doubt, & possibly suspicion in front of the very simple wording,fair bloody dinkum,if people want to turn this upside down,inside out & twist & turn it trying to be narcissistic about it,then maybe it's time they found a new profession or hobby & leave it to all the owners trainers & breeders who dont't seem to have "issue's "with being compliant & respectful of previous & future changes that have & will take the industry forward ( so what,if a race bitch has been registed as a broodbitch & needs to be kenneled in a "compliant" kennel...she can still be trained out of that kennel,or am i wrong ? ).
Sandro Bechini wrote:
Bob
The Code puts in place practices for caring for and keeping greyhounds to be able to give them maximum chance to race and also to be rehomed
Its got nothing to do with growing the industry finances etc, ...that is a whole different argument that you are pitching
I don't see how a document to care and keep greyhounds is turning people away in droves.
Perhaps its the cost of buying a place near Sydney to train dogs to start with is the biggest problem faced by newer participants and older ones who do have property are starting to sell out to developers.
GRNSW is starting to realize that prizemoney needs to be regionalized to allow people in rural areas, where tracts of land are cheaper and where greyhounds are typically being trained, to access TAB prizemoney.
Taree is the latest addition to the rural TAB circuit in NSW, following on the heels o fGunnedah and Temora.
However, this new Code, is a fairly simple document, pretty easy to read and understand and there is nothing that is too onerous in it.
It is there to act as a platform to encourage old and new participants to be part of the modern era of greyhound racing and breeding.
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 21 Jan 2020 10:03
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bill deguara wrote:
Sandro Bechini wrote:
Bob
The Code puts in place practices for caring for and keeping greyhounds to be able to give them maximum chance to race and also to be rehomed
Its got nothing to do with growing the industry finances etc, ...that is a whole different argument that you are pitching
I don't see how a document to care and keep greyhounds is turning people away in droves.
Perhaps its the cost of buying a place near Sydney to train dogs to start with is the biggest problem faced by newer participants and older ones who do have property are starting to sell out to developers.
GRNSW is starting to realize that prizemoney needs to be regionalized to allow people in rural areas, where tracts of land are cheaper and where greyhounds are typically being trained, to access TAB prizemoney.
Taree is the latest addition to the rural TAB circuit in NSW, following on the heels o fGunnedah and Temora.
However, this new Code, is a fairly simple document, pretty easy to read and understand and there is nothing that is too onerous in it.
It is there to act as a platform to encourage old and new participants to be part of the modern era of greyhound racing and breeding. SANDRO .DON;T YOU THNK THAT increasing the number of greyhounds being bred would be a better start than introducing new tracks , We can all see that most clubs now are extending nomination times and are racing with smaller fields each and every week , as a matter of fact some meetings are being cancelled because lack of nominations, Introducing breeders bonuses etc would be a far better way at this present situation, to encourage breeders and improve the greyhound shortage that we are experiencing,just my thoughts mate .
Bill
I wasn't aware that there were any new tracks being built
All they did with Taree was turn it from Non-TAB to TAB....don't you think that is a positive thing for the participants in that area?
In any case, the Code of Practice has not got anything to do with tracks...that is a GRNSW responsibility
Daryl
You are not wrong. You can understand it, why can't others?
Do you have questions about greyhound racing?
