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Frederick Anthes Australia (Verified User) Posts 80 Dogs 2 / Races 0 19 Mar 2020 07:47
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trent wrigley wrote:
So how many litters have Bruce or Fred done In the last five years ? And spent there own money on ?
Ive done a few litters in the last few years and spent a lot. I started breeding two and a half years ago you may have seen a good dog from my first litter called poacher, i have two litters here out of a good bitch called aisle tifi by wheres Pedro and Fernando bale. I got another litter out of a bitch called powered.
Barbara Cheney Australia (Verified User) Posts 40 Dogs 2 / Races 0 19 Mar 2020 10:16
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I am proud to know Fred, he is a hard working person with success in the Greyhound Industry a young person with the world at his feet who will make a big name for himself he has already achieved group and city class status with his greyhounds
many wishes for you from Barbara Cheney the troublemaker
John Little Australia (Verified User) Posts 56 Dogs 5 / Races 0 19 Mar 2020 10:35
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frederick anthes wrote:
trent wrigley wrote:
So how many litters have Bruce or Fred done In the last five years ? And spent there own money on ?
Ive done a few litters in the last few years and spent a lot. I started breeding two and a half years ago you may have seen a good dog from my first litter called poacher, i have two litters here out of a good bitch called aisle tifi by wheres Pedro and Fernando bale. I got another litter out of a bitch called powered.
John Little Australia (Verified User) Posts 56 Dogs 5 / Races 0 19 Mar 2020 10:41
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seemed to have put some knockers to bed fred. i tend to agree with you and bruce . rewarding mediocrity does nothing for the industry or the breed.
Ray Brown Australia (Team Member) Posts 6225 Dogs 8 / Races 5 19 Mar 2020 19:43
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It's probably dangerous territory to be agreeing somewhat with the OP on this thread but a avoiding giving an opinion because of that is not in my make up. I agree that races, certainly under 400 meters, at city venues is not beneficial to greyhound racing in general, they certainly don't warrant similar prizemoney to the longer races where all group races classics are raced over, it is true that the gambling dollars, therefore industry income, is far less on these short course flutter. The breeding industry is also not flushed with greyhounds that couldn't run beyond 450 metres, so in reality, it is not in the best interests of the industries future prospects. (Imho only) I do realise that many greyhounds can't run 500 metres (I owned many) and the owners and trainers are at a loss in relation to prizemoney, however, that has always been the case throughout the history of greyhound racing since inception. Even such greats of the past such as Chief Havoc and Zoom Top won over the 'shorts' but never on city tracks, they are also not remembered for their brilliant short course wins, it is the 500+ races against the best Opposition that the country had to offer, that made them international icons and set a standard the all other tried to emulate...lowering those standards and goals seems to me, definitely not in best interests of the industry/sport.(again imho only) It also must be realised, and I acknowledge the fact that in these present times, the greyhound industry is struggling and numbers and nominations are low, so it is quite understandable that there is no alternative (if full programs are to maintained) than to program a fair number of these short course sprints, that is, if we are to operate with full fields. In saying all this, these races should be a necessary short term fix until when/if we ever get back to how it was before all the crap hit the fan...heaven knows when that will be.
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 19 Mar 2020 21:25
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Ray
There will always be short course dogs but there are other issues at play
Our main City Track is INADEQUATE
1. Firstly its located in inner Sydney and anyone who has experienced Sydney traffic on any day knows what a nightmare that is
2. Secondly, it cannot support 600m racing thus greyhounds have no incentive to move up the distances to effectively change their grade
3. Thirdly, city prizemoney for 280m races is far too high. We have had top class dogs in the heats of regional Group races like the Maitland Cup & Richmond Derby/Oaks, Bulli Gold Cup go around for $1,700, where one or two nights later we have had 280m race on a Wednesday worth $2,500 and on Saturday worth $5,000
A pretty ridiculous situation, when virtually every other State in Australia provides approx $5k to the winner of heats of Group races
That needs to be addressed immediately if they are serious about attracting the best greyohunds from interstate to their events
Regarding the rest, the way I see it, either
1. If they can afford it, GRNSW leaves prizemoney for short coursing the same but lifts the prizemoney for longer distances to provide incentive to race dogs further or
2. cut the short course prizemoney down by 33% and redistribute it to 500m,600m & 700m racing
If they can't afford No.1 then they need to start looking at strategically cutting tracks and meetings
Mark Staines Australia (Verified User) Posts 4497 Dogs 70 / Races 14 19 Mar 2020 23:12
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I cant believe the amount of 500 metre Dogs I've seen entered in 280 metre races at Wenty that get smashed, does ZERO for the Dogs confidence IMO !!!!!
Mark Wilcox Australia (Verified User) Posts 264 Dogs 1 / Races 0 20 Mar 2020 00:01
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Money talks lift the 500 plus races and the dogs will start to appear.
Ray Brown Australia (Team Member) Posts 6225 Dogs 8 / Races 5 20 Mar 2020 00:26
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Sandro Bechini wrote:
Ray
There will always be short course dogs but there are other issues at play
Our main City Track is INADEQUATE
1. Firstly its located in inner Sydney and anyone who has experienced Sydney traffic on any day knows what a nightmare that is
2. Secondly, it cannot support 600m racing thus greyhounds have no incentive to move up the distances to effectively change their grade
3. Thirdly, city prizemoney for 280m races is far too high. We have had top class dogs in the heats of regional Group races like the Maitland Cup & Richmond Derby/Oaks, Bulli Gold Cup go around for $1,700, where one or two nights later we have had 280m race on a Wednesday worth $2,500 and on Saturday worth $5,000
A pretty ridiculous situation, when virtually every other State in Australia provides approx $5k to the winner of heats of Group races
That needs to be addressed immediately if they are serious about attracting the best greyohunds from interstate to their events
Regarding the rest, the way I see it, either
1. If they can afford it, GRNSW leaves prizemoney for short coursing the same but lifts the prizemoney for longer distances to provide incentive to race dogs further or
2. cut the short course prizemoney down by 33% and redistribute it to 500m,600m & 700m racing
If they can't afford No.1 then they need to start looking at strategically cutting tracks and meetings
Yeah mostly agree Sandro...however, whilst agreeing about the location of WP. As far as short course races go, I don't think that it would matter one iota where City racing was held in Sydney, they would still be programming the same number of short course races, that seems to be the mentality of the industry at the moment, it is only prizemoney, owners and trainers that have the power to alter that. Whilst the prizemoney remains the same it will remain so for some time to come.
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 20 Mar 2020 00:29
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Ray
The point you are missing is that at WP there is no 600m option
At Sandown and Meadows and Thursdays at Albion & Angle Park there are 500m, 600m & 700m racing for the bigger money
They have the distance options, WP doesn't , simple as that
Malcolm Smart Australia (Verified User) Posts 12802 Dogs 19 / Races 34 20 Mar 2020 00:39
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RAY BROWN wrote:
Sandro Bechini wrote:
Ray
There will always be short course dogs but there are other issues at play
Our main City Track is INADEQUATE
1. Firstly its located in inner Sydney and anyone who has experienced Sydney traffic on any day knows what a nightmare that is
2. Secondly, it cannot support 600m racing thus greyhounds have no incentive to move up the distances to effectively change their grade
3. Thirdly, city prizemoney for 280m races is far too high. We have had top class dogs in the heats of regional Group races like the Maitland Cup & Richmond Derby/Oaks, Bulli Gold Cup go around for $1,700, where one or two nights later we have had 280m race on a Wednesday worth $2,500 and on Saturday worth $5,000
A pretty ridiculous situation, when virtually every other State in Australia provides approx $5k to the winner of heats of Group races
That needs to be addressed immediately if they are serious about attracting the best greyohunds from interstate to their events
Regarding the rest, the way I see it, either
1. If they can afford it, GRNSW leaves prizemoney for short coursing the same but lifts the prizemoney for longer distances to provide incentive to race dogs further or
2. cut the short course prizemoney down by 33% and redistribute it to 500m,600m & 700m racing
If they can't afford No.1 then they need to start looking at strategically cutting tracks and meetings
Yeah mostly agree Sandro...however, whilst agreeing about the location of WP. As far as short course races go, I don't think that it would matter one iota where City racing was held in Sydney, they would still be programming the same number of short course races, that seems to be the mentality of the industry at the moment, it is only prizemoney, owners and trainers that have the power to alter that. Whilst the prizemoney remains the same it will remain so for some time to come.
So if they are not paying there way, why isn't the TAB complaing about them..???
Ray Brown Australia (Team Member) Posts 6225 Dogs 8 / Races 5 20 Mar 2020 03:12
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No I am not missing that fact Sandro, in reality, WP has never had and neither Did Sandown until sometime into the 2000's (Imay be wrong) Albion Park not sure but I would surprised if it was prior to 2000 at best.., so most city tracks only raced the distance in later years and to be honest, I don't like the bend starts which is just my opinion (so is irrelevant really).
The fact is, when greyhound racing was in it's prime and all the past champions graced them, there was no city mid distance racing...so I think, even though it does add a further dimension and opportunity, the point does not really hold up as the failure or shortage of 500 plus racing greyhounds.
I know there are many and varied opinions on this, but the above is mine.
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 20 Mar 2020 03:23
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No point living in the past either...if WP doesn't have a 600m start then we will see plenty more 280m races there earning big $$
Ray Brown Australia (Team Member) Posts 6225 Dogs 8 / Races 5 20 Mar 2020 03:25
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Malcolm Smart wrote:
RAY BROWN wrote:
Sandro Bechini wrote:
Ray
There will always be short course dogs but there are other issues at play
Our main City Track is INADEQUATE
1. Firstly its located in inner Sydney and anyone who has experienced Sydney traffic on any day knows what a nightmare that is
2. Secondly, it cannot support 600m racing thus greyhounds have no incentive to move up the distances to effectively change their grade
3. Thirdly, city prizemoney for 280m races is far too high. We have had top class dogs in the heats of regional Group races like the Maitland Cup & Richmond Derby/Oaks, Bulli Gold Cup go around for $1,700, where one or two nights later we have had 280m race on a Wednesday worth $2,500 and on Saturday worth $5,000
A pretty ridiculous situation, when virtually every other State in Australia provides approx $5k to the winner of heats of Group races
That needs to be addressed immediately if they are serious about attracting the best greyohunds from interstate to their events
Regarding the rest, the way I see it, either
1. If they can afford it, GRNSW leaves prizemoney for short coursing the same but lifts the prizemoney for longer distances to provide incentive to race dogs further or
2. cut the short course prizemoney down by 33% and redistribute it to 500m,600m & 700m racing
If they can't afford No.1 then they need to start looking at strategically cutting tracks and meetings
Yeah mostly agree Sandro...however, whilst agreeing about the location of WP. As far as short course races go, I don't think that it would matter one iota where City racing was held in Sydney, they would still be programming the same number of short course races, that seems to be the mentality of the industry at the moment, it is only prizemoney, owners and trainers that have the power to alter that. Whilst the prizemoney remains the same it will remain so for some time to come.
So if they are not paying there way, why isn't the TAB complaing about them..???
Probably for the same reason that they broadcast NZ and some country meetings... to fill their time slots, any return is better than none.
Mark Wilcox Australia (Verified User) Posts 264 Dogs 1 / Races 0 20 Mar 2020 03:35
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Sandro you are spot on all city tracks must have a stepping stone from 500 to 600 and if so to 700 and prize money to suit then we would not have to worry about short racing in the city . As for WP the sooner we get out of there the better one of the worst tracks going around,good for nothing.
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 20 Mar 2020 04:11
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Ray
NZ stagger their prizemoney for longer distance races
Bruce Teague Australia (Verified User) Posts 2092 Dogs 0 / Races 0 20 Mar 2020 04:22
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While applauding Sandro, I see there are both principles and pragmatic steps to consider.
First, short races are being put there because clubs have sponsored them. Why? Presumably, trainers have asked for them. In recent times I found that two TAB clubs said that specifically.
Second, almost all them are relatively recent additions - they were not there 10 years ago. It's not just Wenty but several TAB tracks as well. In fact, Bulli got a 340m in the last month - guess who is guilty there?
Third, there are only three justifications or excuses for offering the shorts - poor breeding, lazy training or one of the minority of dogs that simply runs out of puff at 300m. These are not part of my logic but factors put up by others at various times on this site (but I can only agree).
Fourth, the fans would not like 20 minute football matches, nor do they much like sub-20 sec races (as I assess when rubbing shoulders with them over the years). They just want a decent run for their money. Boom, bang, thank you ma'am does not fit in well.
Fifth, gauging ratings on the amount of cash bet is no longer a wise measure. The betting market has long been corrupted. Time of day, day of week and proximity of trot races are more influential, sad to say. However, potential growth will never be helped by quickies - they too closely equate to using poker machines.
Sixth, the TAB is not in charge of race distances as such although it does weigh in from time to time. Clubs and state administrations do that. All TABCORP wants (in NSW) are the 500-odd races it contracts for (albeit it gets a lot more).
So there are short and long term fixes.
SHORT
1. Can the WPK 280s and install boxes back in a straight line as far as is possible - including through the fence.
2. Ban 330m racing at Richmond and also shift the 400m boxes around to a more amenable position. Also ban the shorts at Gardens, Dapto, Lismore, Grafton, Wagga and Dubbo. Any displaced dogs can move to non-TAB tracks which are usually worth supporting.
3. As soon as possible, revamp prize money levels so there is a gradual progression upwards as distance increases.
LONG TERM
4. Properly investigate (a) the reasons for the widespread uptick in the shorts and (b) in parallel, investigate the breeding caper for this reason and also to work out what is happening to the breed's stamina.
5. This is a digression but the longstanding argument about Wenty's location is a valid worry - partly for the traffic reasons mentioned. The population centre is out beyond Parramatta which is why they put the Olympics and much of the football further West. Go to where the people are or can commute to easily.
6. It would be good to know the fine detail of the Neds280 series at Wenty a while back but it seems the PTB are never going to reveal what actually happened. It probably does not matter much anyway. Terrible move.
Ronald George Hunter Australia (Verified User) Posts 4318 Dogs 0 / Races 0 20 Mar 2020 05:23
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Despite all the gobblygook being bandied around, you are all reminded that the costs are the same for "Mediocre" dogs! Until this is fairly rectified, then your so called expert views carry no water. There seems to be some highly inflated ego's out there. Just remember that self praise is no recommendation!!
Malcolm Smart Australia (Verified User) Posts 12802 Dogs 19 / Races 34 20 Mar 2020 05:37
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ronald george hunter wrote:
Despite all the gobblygook being bandied around, you are all reminded that the costs are the same for "Mediocre" dogs! Until this is fairly rectified, then your so called expert views carry no water. There seems to be some highly inflated ego's out there. Just remember that self praise is no recommendation!!
Don't bother Ron, They have no idea what its like to get out of bed at 5am rain , hail or shine to train a dog, if they did they'd realise a 700, 500, 300 metre dog all piss , shit eat the same...
Mark Donohue Australia (Verified User) Posts 3236 Dogs 6 / Races 0 20 Mar 2020 06:11
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Sandro Bechini wrote:
Ray
NZ stagger their prizemoney for longer distance races
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