home - to The Greyhound-Database
Home  |  Dog-Search  |  Dogs ID  |  Races  |  Race Cards  |  Coursing  |  Tracks  |  Statistic  |  Testmating  |  Kennels  
 
Facebook
Login  |    |  add_race  |  add_coursing  |  add_dog  |  Membership  |  Advertising  |  Ask the Vet    Help  print pedigree      
TV  |  Active-Sires  |  Sire-Pages  |  Which Sire?  |  Classifieds  |  Auctions  |  Photos  |  Videos  |  Library  |  Adoption  |  Forum  |  About_us  |  Site Usage

X

Happy Easter to all at Greyhound-Data

Welcome to the Greyhound Knowledge Forum

   

The Greyhound-Data Forum has been created to act as a platform for greyhound enthusiasts to share information on this magnificent animal called a greyhound.

Greyhound-Data reserve the right to remove any post that is off topic, advertisements or opinions they consider to be offensive.

Please read the forum usage manual please note:

If you answer then please try to stay on topic. It's absolutely okay to answer in a broader scope but don't hijack posts by switching to something off topic.

In case you see an insulting post: DO NOT REPLY TO IT!
Use the report button to inform the moderators so that we can delete it.

Read more...

All TopicsFor SaleGD-WebsiteBreedingHealthRacingCoursingRetirementBettingTalkLogin to post
Do you have questions about greyhound racing?
Do you need advice on how to train a greyhound?

OK 300 mtr races deserve top pm - votepage  1 2 3 4 5 

Daryl Barrett
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 620
Dogs 0 / Races 0

24 Mar 2020 04:55


 (0)
 (0)


G'day Bruce,in hindsight,i should have chosen a different comparison other than The Meadows,but in saying that,i think a big part of why the punter's invested more on wagering on the Meadows meeting rather Richmond had a lot to do with the "class" of racing ,but also the that there were so many 300-400mtr races at Richmond.Also,there we're quite a few very short priced favs in these races & not a lot of intrest in punting on those race's,after all,there is generally only 2-3 geniune chances ( if that ),in most short couse racing,the rest cause interference & take each other out of the equation in the first 50 mtrs or the first turn.I do agree that there a lot of variables & it is a bit messy,but 500m + racing generates by far the most wagering & turnover,which ultimately = a more successful business product & industry imo.see ya mate.
PS..." but half way down the straight,No,is in no danger of defeat & drawng righhht away... ( to be continued )LOL.
Bruce Teague wrote:

Daryl,

On your Richmond/Meadows comparison for last Friday night, there are more oddities.

I compare only Win figures as the others can throw up even more peculiarities. But note that the Meadows meeting was their prime weekly event, transferred from the normal Saturday as GRV plays musical dates whenever there is a Cup meeting on somewhere.

For the 9-race Richmond meeting, the Vics consistently bet more per race than NSW gamblers did - up about a quarter. Very strange. Either way, there were no great differences between 330m races and others.

Many high profile trainers were present in the 330m races, which may suggest they don't much like the dicey 400m start. Many of their charges seem to swap back and forth between 400m and shorter trips.

Across the board, race to race popularity showed many ups and downs with no pattern. The highest Rich turnover was in races 5 and 8 (NSW) or 1 and 5 (Vic) - all longer races.

On the Meadows meeting, the Vics bet about double what NSW gamblers did - which is to be expected. (Vics love Quaddies, too, NSW not so much).

In all cases, there is usually a blip upwards around the 9:30 pm mark which is normally when a trot meeting fades out or there is a gap in the footie (two major matches were running). This comes despite the habit of many social Club attendees to disappear after 9pm, or ClubTabs to close down.

Any or all figures can be affected by nearby race starts, particularly trot delays (eg people buying Next Up tickets).

It's a dog's breakfast mate.





Kieth Anderson
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 397
Dogs 34 / Races 19

24 Mar 2020 12:18


 (0)
 (0)


Jodie Lord wrote:

Malcolm Smart wrote:

Ok lets look at opinions do 300 mtr dogs that race at WP deserve the full prizemoney answer below and state whether you are an owner or trainer or gambler or in obnoxious case an anti....

me = YES / trainer


yes trainer
doesn’t matter what distance they run they all deserve to be paid the same that’s all old school shit saying 500 dogs deserve more all the cost to get the dog to the track is the same plenty people breed for speed and strength and get the opposite just goes to show there’s no rules in this game sprinter/stayer they all deserve the same money may the fastest dog win.


Exactly I agree they all cost big money to buy rear and break in.


Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1827
Dogs 0 / Races 0

25 Mar 2020 03:58


 (4)
 (0)


What a wonderful opportunity to move out - or at least plan to - of Wenty and draw up plans for a better track with nothing under 400m.

Even a properly re-built Richmond would do.



Steven Martin
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 7466
Dogs 179 / Races 66

25 Mar 2020 08:38


 (4)
 (0)


Do 300m races at Wentworth Park deserve TOP Prizemoney?

A BIG FAT NO from me.

Hang on. Let me re-think that question.

Q. Do 500m dogs need more work (trialling & exercise) then 300m racing dog when preparing them to race?
A. Yes.

Q. 300m racing dogs can run twice a week, every week bar injury. Would you, therefore race a 500m racing dog exactly the same?
A. Only if your a d1ck3@d and want to break the dog down in less then 3 months.

Summary.

Then....Why the bloody hell would I race a dog over 500m for $5000 when I could race over 300m twice a week, every week and have the chance to win $10,000.

Bugger it. What was I thinking? Can I please change my mine to yes.

YES 300m racing dogs should have the right to earn the same prizemoney of $5,000 at Wentworth Park as that means I have to do less, to earn more. I don't really give a rats ar$3 if the punters hate betting on these suicide races because there's no incentive for me to aim higher anymore due to equal prizemoney opportunities.

Think about it everybody for a minute..........$10,000 a week or $5,000.

Arhhh bugger it. I may as well start breeding to short course stud dogs while I'm at it to help guarantee speedy squibs.

Yes it's true.....I'd rather watch 500m or even 700m dog races any day of the week, but now there's no reason to pursue that avenue anymore so lets all go 300m.

Come on everybody. Lets ALL breed short-course races. Less work, more earn.

PS...I'm a Owner, Breeder & an ex-trainer....But I might come out of retirement if equal prizemoney rights catch on all over Australia because all I have to do is load them into the trailer & rock up at the track to have the chance to win twice as much....I'm sold.



Jason Caley
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 222
Dogs 6 / Races 0

25 Mar 2020 13:18


 (0)
 (0)


No 1180m only or greater so we can kill the industry in one move!!

----

Distance dogs, seriously? We don't breed them anymore. We have bred selectively for speed so assign prizemoney equally and proportionate to demand. rewarding for distance is so 1990's. Wish it wasn't but this is through our own breed for speed needs.

I would like to see higher prizemoney to distance dogs but ONLY if they reinstate handicap distance racing with staggered starts. Can't see that happening anytime soon unfortunately.

I also want hurdles to make a come back as well. Particularly miss Olympic Park handicap hurdles over distance. Short of that everything Jodie Lord said!




Daryl Barrett
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 620
Dogs 0 / Races 0

25 Mar 2020 17:30


 (1)
 (0)


Bruce,i have been saying it for years,"Richmond would be the showpiece of greyhound racing in Australia,if not the world,especially if a one turn track was built we could have two world class tracks in the one racing complex "...years ago i ssuggested this mate. ( that way every distance would be catered for at the one place,from 280mtr's- to,well who knows,even the " old school" marathons occasionally).
Bruce Teague wrote:

What a wonderful opportunity to move out - or at least plan to - of Wenty and draw up plans for a better track with nothing under 400m.
Ps..." & NO has given yes an absolute galloping lesson & wins by the length of the straight....LOL.
Even a properly re-built Richmond would do.





Sandro Bechini
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 18083
Dogs 14401 / Races 1819

25 Mar 2020 20:51


 (5)
 (0)


To be honest I would prefer to start seeing a greater percentage of 500m and 600m races to start rebuilding the pool of longer distance dogs

Therefore, higher prizemoney should definitely be allocated to the these races to reward trainers, owners and breeders for their work, dedication and patience

Of course, dogs who can't definitely get past 450m need to be catered for, I wouldn't like to see a reduction on their money, but at least the prizemoney for the higher distances increased

All our classic and open races are mainly at 500-600m and beyond and this is where the funds should be aimed at development of greyhounds


Mark Donohue
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2725
Dogs 6 / Races 0

25 Mar 2020 23:23


 (1)
 (0)


We did have increased p/m for greyhounds that raced further, but it was dropped iMO without a reasonable excuse about a year or so ago.


Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1827
Dogs 0 / Races 0

25 Mar 2020 23:32


 (2)
 (0)


Sandro,

I generally agree with your last post but would like to emphasise that 500m racing is the gold standard for good reason. It tests both the speed and the strength of the average greyhound (as we know it today). It challenges the knowledge and skills of the breeder and trainer to bring dogs up to or close to that standard. And the fans like races of that length or longer.

Those features sponsor the maintenance or improvement of the breed, which must always be the prime objective. If we fail there the code is doomed and no-one has a job.

A negative has been that track layouts have never matched that same quality standard but at least that is getting some attention now.

A 500m race implies a circle track but there is no reason why one-turns in the 450m/480m category should not do well at the same time. They help cater for a greater variety of racing types, particularly wide runners, and can often be just as testing as the longer circle trips – or sometimes more so (eg Bulli, Horsham, and could I mention Harold Park?).

Equally, straight track racing over 350m/366m (but not 300m trips!) serves a genuine purpose; it is demanding enough on its own and caters for special needs such as dogs returning from injury or those which have trouble getting around a corner. What on earth is NSW going to do to fill the gap, and why has it not done it already? Ditto for coursing.

All other sub-350m trips serve no purpose at all other than to occupy the time for weak dogs which happen to be good at jumping out of a box – or not. They certainly do not contribute to the advancement of the breed.

The corollary of all this is that if you hammer the 500m needs you will also get a number which can handle 600m or 700m, perhaps with extra specialised treatment.

The way our industry is structured, the only way of achieving the desired objective is to pay for it – less for the shorts, more for the longs. For example, a 20% standard premium over the 500m group will justify the longer time taken to qualify a would-be stayer. Obviously, there are breeding implications, too, but I leave that for greater minds than mine.

A key point is that it has taken a couple of decades to get to the stage where speed-speed-speed is now the dominant or sometimes the only factor. To bring about change, we need to set objectives for 2025 and 2030 and work hard to get there. Start now.

* * * * *

Slow/weak dogs: Off to the bush. Non-Tab but with modest support. Or, if appropriate, create Non-Tab meetings at TAB tracks.

Handicap races: No problem. A bit of variety. But take care when publishing stats.

Hurdle races: A dead duck. We all loved watching but injury rates were higher. Too few dogs were trained for the job. Usually, one or two dogs dominated and the rest were wasting their time.

Dog population: A totally different question. A matter of marketing, PR and public image.




Sheldon Hamilton
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 16
Dogs 0 / Races 0

26 Mar 2020 02:50


 (6)
 (0)


If you log into your TAB account go to results. NOT the none log in results they reflect different figures.

You will see all betting pools for each race. Now if I use just those as my guide and compare all provincial 400m races or less to 450m provincial races or greater you can be assured 450m plus races generate on average minimum $5k EXTRA turnover per race.

For every 100 races that's $500, 000 EXTRA TURNOVER. This could be 10 million plus each year. And that's ONLY based off TAB figures.

Think using short course as a stepping stone to greater distance is a must but also believe prize money must reflect.


Daryl Barrett
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 620
Dogs 0 / Races 0

26 Mar 2020 03:13


 (2)
 (0)


G'day Sandro,more commonsense, can't agree more with you're comments mate.
Sandro Bechini wrote:

To be honest I would prefer to start seeing a greater percentage of 500m and 600m races to start rebuilding the pool of longer distance dogs

Therefore, higher prizemoney should definitely be allocated to the these races to reward trainers, owners and breeders for their work, dedication and patience

Of course, dogs who can't definitely get past 450m need to be catered for, I wouldn't like to see a reduction on their money, but at least the prizemoney for the higher distances increased

All our classic and open races are mainly at 500-600m and beyond and this is where the funds should be aimed at development of greyhounds






Malcolm Smart
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 12479
Dogs 19 / Races 34

26 Mar 2020 04:39


 (0)
 (0)


steven martin wrote:

Do 300m races at Wentworth Park deserve TOP Prizemoney?

A BIG FAT NO from me.

Hang on. Let me re-think that question.

Q. Do 500m dogs need more work (trialling & exercise) then 300m racing dog when preparing them to race?
A. Yes.

Q. 300m racing dogs can run twice a week, every week bar injury. Would you, therefore race a 500m racing dog exactly the same?
A. Only if your a d1ck3@d and want to break the dog down in less then 3 months.

Summary.

Then....Why the bloody hell would I race a dog over 500m for $5000 when I could race over 300m twice a week, every week and have the chance to win $10,000.

Bugger it. What was I thinking? Can I please change my mine to yes.

YES 300m racing dogs should have the right to earn the same prizemoney of $5,000 at Wentworth Park as that means I have to do less, to earn more. I don't really give a rats ar$3 if the punters hate betting on these suicide races because there's no incentive for me to aim higher anymore due to equal prizemoney opportunities.

Think about it everybody for a minute..........$10,000 a week or $5,000.

Arhhh bugger it. I may as well start breeding to short course stud dogs while I'm at it to help guarantee speedy squibs.

Yes it's true.....I'd rather watch 500m or even 700m dog races any day of the week, but now there's no reason to pursue that avenue anymore so lets all go 300m.

Come on everybody. Lets ALL breed short-course races. Less work, more earn.

PS...I'm a Owner, Breeder & an ex-trainer....But I might come out of retirement if equal prizemoney rights catch on all over Australia because all I have to do is load them into the trailer & rock up at the track to have the chance to win twice as much....I'm sold.

what are you on about, no one is stopping you from nominating a 500 mtr dog over the shorts , then you won't have to "train" them so hard...lol



Steven Martin
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 7466
Dogs 179 / Races 66

26 Mar 2020 07:33


 (3)
 (0)


Malcolm Smart wrote:

what are you on about,


Hi Malcolm. Let me just remind you of the opening question, that you asked.....HELLO.

Malcolm Smart wrote:

Ok lets look at opinions do 300 mtr dogs that race at WP deserve the full prizemoney answer below and state whether you are an owner or trainer or gambler or in obnoxious case an anti....

me = YES / trainer

Give yourself an upper-cut ---> EXTERNAL LINK



Malcolm Smart
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 12479
Dogs 19 / Races 34

26 Mar 2020 07:50


 (0)
 (0)


(Then....Why the bloody hell would I race a dog over 500m for $5000 when I could race over 300m twice a week, every week and have the chance to win $10,000)

just trying to find out why you can't put your dogs over the 300, since you can if you don't train them as hard..

Its ok , the Trainers say YES, only the Owner/breeders say no, so Ill take that as a YES..





Steven Martin
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 7466
Dogs 179 / Races 66

26 Mar 2020 08:44


 (4)
 (0)


Malcolm Smart wrote:

just trying to find out why you can't put your dogs over the 300, since you can if you don't train them as hard..


Because I'd rather have the chance to win the Group 1 Australian Cup.


Sandro Bechini
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 18083
Dogs 14401 / Races 1819

26 Mar 2020 08:45


 (3)
 (0)


steven martin wrote:

Malcolm Smart wrote:

just trying to find out why you can't put your dogs over the 300, since you can if you don't train them as hard..


Because I'd rather have the chance to win the Group 1 Australian Cup.

Until that is shortened to 270m



Malcolm Smart
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 12479
Dogs 19 / Races 34

26 Mar 2020 09:26


 (0)
 (0)


and how's that going for you's..??



Daryl Barrett
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 620
Dogs 0 / Races 0

26 Mar 2020 09:36


 (0)
 (0)


Hahahaha..ah dear,thats gold Sandro.
Sandro Bechini wrote:

steven martin wrote:

Malcolm Smart wrote:

just trying to find out why you can't put your dogs over the 300, since you can if you don't train them as hard..


Because I'd rather have the chance to win the Group 1 Australian Cup.

Until that is shortened to 270m





Daryl Barrett
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 620
Dogs 0 / Races 0

26 Mar 2020 09:39


 (0)
 (0)


Geez Mal,that's desperation mate,lol.
Malcolm Smart wrote:

(Then....Why the bloody hell would I race a dog over 500m for $5000 when I could race over 300m twice a week, every week and have the chance to win $10,000)

just trying to find out why you can't put your dogs over the 300, since you can if you don't train them as hard..

Its ok , the Trainers say YES, only the Owner/breeders say no, so Ill take that as a YES..






Malcolm Smart
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 12479
Dogs 19 / Races 34

26 Mar 2020 10:11


 (0)
 (0)


no mate Im fine, Ill stick with the trainers..just remember to not buy from an owner/breeder..


posts 95page  1 2 3 4 5