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Malcolm Smart Australia (Verified User) Posts 12802 Dogs 19 / Races 34 19 Mar 2020 21:26
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Ok lets look at opinions do 300 mtr dogs that race at WP deserve the full prizemoney answer below and state whether you are an owner or trainer or gambler or in obnoxious case an anti....
me = YES / trainer
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19486 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 19 Mar 2020 21:32
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Malcolm Smart wrote:
Ok lets look at opinions do 300 mtr dogs that race at WP deserve the full prizemoney answer below and state whether you are an owner or trainer or gambler or in obnoxious case an anti....
me = YES / trainer
NO
Owner/Breeder/Former Trainer and again when semi-retirement kicks in
As one of these I don't think sub 400m dogs deserve more than 2k in prizemoney for the level of work that needs to be put into them
As a Gambler only on races above 400m races on horseshoe tracks and 4-bend tracks. As a gambler, 300m races provide poor betting options
Malcolm Smart Australia (Verified User) Posts 12802 Dogs 19 / Races 34 19 Mar 2020 22:54
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Sandro Bechini wrote:
Malcolm Smart wrote:
Ok lets look at opinions do 300 mtr dogs that race at WP deserve the full prizemoney answer below and state whether you are an owner or trainer or gambler or in obnoxious case an anti....
me = YES / trainer
NO
Owner/Breeder/Former Trainer and again when semi-retirement kicks in
As one of these I don't think sub 400m dogs deserve more than 2k in prizemoney for the level of work that needs to be put into them
As a Gambler only on races above 400m races on horseshoe tracks and 4-bend tracks. As a gambler, 300m races provide poor betting options
But as a breeder if you breed 400 mtr dogs you'll still expect full price for it, you won't discount because its a 400mtr squib...
(example , dog advertised on here for $4000 just won a300 mtr race at rich now the price is $6500, I think if you are paying that money you deserve the top money..)
Jason Bolwell Australia (Verified User) Posts 130 Dogs 44 / Races 1 19 Mar 2020 23:18
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NO owner/breeder
Mark Staines Australia (Verified User) Posts 4497 Dogs 70 / Races 14 19 Mar 2020 23:26
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NO Owner/Breeder
Valerie Glover Australia (Verified User) Posts 239 Dogs 2 / Races 0 19 Mar 2020 23:45
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NO Breeder Trainer Bob Glover
Mark Wilcox Australia (Verified User) Posts 264 Dogs 1 / Races 0 19 Mar 2020 23:49
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NO we are owners/trainers/ breeders
Bruce Teague Australia (Verified User) Posts 2092 Dogs 0 / Races 0 19 Mar 2020 23:53
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The better question is what is better for the breed and the industry in the long term.
A good guide to that is what sort of product the buyers want. And how has that changed over the last couple of decades.
Trainers are simply not relevant to strategic decisions - other than to make sure they get appropriate rewards and don't blot their copybooks. They are skilled enough to adjust to whatever the conditions are.
Owners are highly relevant as they (or some of them) can put fresh cash into the business. Sadly, this is not happening well enough - although nobody is sure why. That's both a short and long term challenge.
Finally, it is neither here nor there whether a breeder gets "full price" for his output. Breeding is essentially a matter of demand and supply - ie market forces - so anyone losing out is having a problem with one or other of those factors. No doubt the biggest impetus would come from a popular and thriving industry.
Suffice to say that the shorter the race the more likely it is that interference will be higher, injuries more common and confidence reduced.
In any event, a survey on this site would end up as more biased than the ABC so we may not learn much. If you want the truth it must be sought out independently and professionally.
Malcolm Smart Australia (Verified User) Posts 12802 Dogs 19 / Races 34 19 Mar 2020 23:59
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question for the "breeders", you breed a litter you have a fair idea which are the good one's , if you don't believe the 300 mtr dogs deserve the top prizemoney then why don't you give the others away,which most probably would be 300 mtr racers instead of selling..????
Bruce Teague Australia (Verified User) Posts 2092 Dogs 0 / Races 0 20 Mar 2020 00:07
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What I would like to know is is what is better for the breed and the industry in the long term.
A good guide to that is what sort of product the buyers want. And how has that changed over the last couple of decades.
Trainers are simply not relevant to strategic decisions - other than to make sure they get appropriate rewards and don't blot their copybooks. They are skilled enough to adjust to whatever the conditions are.
Owners are highly relevant as they (or some of them) can put fresh cash into the business. Sadly, this is not happening well enough - although nobody is sure why. That's both a short and long term challenge - it's where it all starts.
Finally, it is neither here nor there whether a breeder gets "full price" for his output. Breeding is essentially a matter of demand and supply - ie market forces - so anyone losing out is having a problem with one or other of those factors. No doubt the biggest impetus would come from a popular and thriving industry.
Suffice to say that the shorter the race the more likely it is that interference will be higher, injuries more common, dividends more unpredictable and dog confidence reduced.
In any event, a survey on this site would end up as more biased than the ABC so we may not learn much. If you want the truth it must be sought out independently and professionally.
Mark Staines Australia (Verified User) Posts 4497 Dogs 70 / Races 14 20 Mar 2020 00:10
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Stop moving the Goal Post's Mal !!!!! A 300 Metre Dog can still be a good earner if it is fast enough, so why would a Breeder want to give it away ?
Malcolm Smart Australia (Verified User) Posts 12802 Dogs 19 / Races 34 20 Mar 2020 00:12
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Mark Staines wrote:
Stop moving the Goal Post's Mal !!!!! A 300 Metre Dog can still be a good earner if it is fast enough, so why would a Breeder want to give it away ?
So then answer why isn't it enetitled to run for the WP prizemoney..??
Jason Bolwell Australia (Verified User) Posts 130 Dogs 44 / Races 1 20 Mar 2020 00:20
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Malcolm Smart wrote:
Mark Staines wrote:
Stop moving the Goal Post's Mal !!!!! A 300 Metre Dog can still be a good earner if it is fast enough, so why would a Breeder want to give it away ?
So then answer why isn't it enetitled to run for the WP prizemoney..??
pretty simple in my opinion.If you keep offering more money for short course races then that is all you will get because why would a trainer send the dog any further if he has double the chance of winning top prizemoney twice a week rather than getting the dog fit (costing the trainer money) to race for the same money once a week ?? no brainer really double the prizemoney for 500m dogs.
Mark Staines Australia (Verified User) Posts 4497 Dogs 70 / Races 14 20 Mar 2020 00:23
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Since Adam was a Boy 500 Metre plus Greyhounds and Races that cater for them have held a higher status amongst Owners/Trainers and Breeders and i cant see that changing ever in Australia !!!!
Malcolm Smart Australia (Verified User) Posts 12802 Dogs 19 / Races 34 20 Mar 2020 00:31
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Ok set the record straight I don't like/want ordinary 300 mtr races at wenty , I spoke to my boss and suggested that we have a top grade every now and then because they deserve the chance of a WP win on their resume,but what this thread is I believe if we have to have them running at WP they deserve the money WP pays..
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19486 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 20 Mar 2020 01:05
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Malcolm Smart wrote:
Sandro Bechini wrote:
Malcolm Smart wrote:
Ok lets look at opinions do 300 mtr dogs that race at WP deserve the full prizemoney answer below and state whether you are an owner or trainer or gambler or in obnoxious case an anti....
me = YES / trainer
NO
Owner/Breeder/Former Trainer and again when semi-retirement kicks in
As one of these I don't think sub 400m dogs deserve more than 2k in prizemoney for the level of work that needs to be put into them
As a Gambler only on races above 400m races on horseshoe tracks and 4-bend tracks. As a gambler, 300m races provide poor betting options
But as a breeder if you breed 400 mtr dogs you'll still expect full price for it, you won't discount because its a 400mtr squib...
(example , dog advertised on here for $4000 just won a300 mtr race at rich now the price is $6500, I think if you are paying that money you deserve the top money..)
Firstly, I don't try and breed for 400m dogs
Secondly, I don't know what each pups distance capability will be when its born
Thirdly, I expect a fair price for the pup based on what I have sought to breed it for
Lastly, if it turns out to be a sub 400m squib it used to end up in NZ or I would give it away
They have been given more value because of the amount of racing and prizemoney there is available for them.
Up to a certain point all dogs, sub 420m and above cost the same to develop so there is a base level prizemoney that needs to be met so that thes edogs if they win their maiden and 4 5th grades owners and trainers aren't out of pocket.
However, once you are aware that your dog is not a sub 420m dog then I just think the higher distances should be paid far more because of the patience and time and effort put in to maintain and develop such a dog for the longer distances
Simon Moore Australia (Verified User) Posts 2366 Dogs 32 / Races 393 20 Mar 2020 01:18
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yes they deserve it but there shouldn't be 280m races at wenty on their top city meeting of the week imo.
they should be putting on short course races on the tab tracks with boosted prizemoney on different occasions.
Mark Donohue Australia (Verified User) Posts 3236 Dogs 6 / Races 0 20 Mar 2020 01:47
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No - owner / trainer
However, there are better ways that GRNSW can program races for these types of speed dogs for their owners / trainers to derive more prize money from racing and they should be catering for more 600m n 700m races too.
Jodie Lord Australia (Verified User) Posts 92 Dogs 66 / Races 0 20 Mar 2020 02:47
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Malcolm Smart wrote:
Ok lets look at opinions do 300 mtr dogs that race at WP deserve the full prizemoney answer below and state whether you are an owner or trainer or gambler or in obnoxious case an anti....
me = YES / trainer
yes trainer doesnt matter what distance they run they all deserve to be paid the same thats all old school shit saying 500 dogs deserve more all the cost to get the dog to the track is the same plenty people breed for speed and strength and get the opposite just goes to show theres no rules in this game sprinter/stayer they all deserve the same money may the fastest dog win.
David Plumridge Australia (Verified User) Posts 414 Dogs 563 / Races 127 20 Mar 2020 02:54
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No - owner breeder. I want a dog to be able to win firstly over the Melbourne cup/Easter Egg etc etc But happy to win over a shorter distance and would expect lesser prize money
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