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Do you have questions about greyhound racing?
Do you need advice on how to train a greyhound?

Live baiting…page  1 2 

Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2092
Dogs 0 / Races 0

01 Feb 2022 21:42


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I don't want to get into a training discussion although, nominally, I can't see what's wrong with FOL practices (NB Vic has several regular FOL meetings too but, unfortunately, SA ended up with a mix and match system).

The key issue here is that authorities made several decisions when coming out of the live baiting saga - one of which was no skins on lures.

They did that mostly for PR reasons to show their masters and the public that the industry was fair dinkum about getting rid of live baiting. The decision did not come out of any serious investigation of the pros and cons - it was merely due to the "look" of the practice and what they could write in the rule book.

The problem is that it is a short distance from a live bunny tied to a lure and the skin of a dead bunny doing the same job. That's what you have to attack.

While the shouting has died down, it has not gone away and never will. A case has to be mounted that authorities over-reached so a better compromise must be sought. That means serious studies of the alternatives and their impacts, preferably with qualified independent input. Only then would it be practicable to put up a case for change.

The basis for that case has to be the aim of advancing the breed in overall terms, not just racing. A prerequisite for that is to improve the worth of the breed in the eyes of the public. Doing that would generate huge spin-offs along the way.


Sandro Bechini
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 19488
Dogs 15268 / Races 1856

01 Feb 2022 21:59


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It's a constant battle Bruce

The enemy will never go away and they will continue to chip at the edges of so-called 'humanity'

They started with the live baiting argument

Then they used very old footage from the Macau Canidrome which they still use, despite it being closed for 10 years

Then they used the concocted footage from Vietnam of dogs being killed and buried in mass graves. That footage has since been proven to be a staged beat up for the purpose of shocking the Australian public- the dogs used were not exported Australian dogs, they were born in Vietnam

Then they moved onto how we look after our dogs

Now they focus on deaths and injuries at our tracks - even though they are at an all time low and getting lower

The industry as a whole has responded magnificently, we have more younger people with a greater social conscience getting involved the sport, we have new tracks being built with safety a priority (whether UTS get it wrong or right is another issue, but its happening for the right reason), we have greater education of new trainers via video and practical education of how to look after greyhound athletes and how to detect and treat injuries, we have increased our rehoming options exponentially across Australia, we have subsidised vet care for dogs who have sustained major injuries on track, we have subsidized de-sexing and dental care for retirees to be rehomed, the care and the code of practices for our dog shave been developed to promote maximum socialization with the general public

All these things need to constantly advertised

Our authorities across Australia and especially GA, our national body, need to constantly advertise to the general public via feel-good TV & Radio programs like Sunrise etc, Social Media platforms and Newspapers to deliver the progress of our sport to combat these vilifying and false attacks on the sport by people who know nothing about it and only seek to destroy it

These funds should be budgeted and put aside in the PR departments of our sports authorities and each time they monitor an attack by an anti-agency the funds should be spent 3-fold to combat it.

This has to be part of our defence strategy for the sport.

Forget live baiting...that ship has well truly sailed

What we need is our authorities to lobby the governments to put us on the same foot as other dog training agencies that are allowed to use animal products to train their dogs i.e. if its good for Bill the Border Collie, it should be good enough for Gary the Greyhound

And the Finish On Lure has to be taken on seriously now on a National Basis





Darren Leeson
Australia
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Posts 1343
Dogs 154 / Races 139

01 Feb 2022 22:12


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Well said Sandro, it needs to be aligned with whats going on in pet ownership. They not only chase a ball or stick, but catch it as well.



Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2092
Dogs 0 / Races 0

01 Feb 2022 23:27


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All good stuff, Sandro.

By far the top priority has to go to disbanding the existing GA and reforming it as a National Commission with teeth and funding.

The trick is to convince six state and two territory bureaucracies to enable it.

Since none of them are likely to vote for a reduction in their powers we then have to move on to Racing Ministers to see if they will do it (they do meet annually for chats).

So how do we convince the pollies? By a concerted, well planned, grass roots campaign - as occurred after the NSW ban.

Who will lead that push? Buggered if I know and I have been trying for decades, but certainly not the NSW GBOTA. It is part of the problem.

But that's what all the other major sports have done.

Biggest barrier? The thoroughbreds which have the ears of the big end of town and which hate any change (check out NSW v Victoria for starters).


Mark Donohue
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 3237
Dogs 6 / Races 0

02 Feb 2022 23:30


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I don't think I am talking out of school here, but Grafton GRC has a good method going on in the catching pen where there's a furry looking round thing attached to a rubber chord that is about ten metres long, and it's stretched ready for release. When the dogs come around the turn towards the catching pen, the rubber chord is released and the dogs follow it to near the back of the pen. A novel idea that appears to be working. Well done John.



Grant Dunphy
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 743
Dogs 4 / Races 1

05 Feb 2022 10:16


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Yes Mark-well done Grafton -You have a reward of sorts-Any reward will encourage & this will no doubt help even if it is not the whole answer it is within the current (made up by people who don't know) rules.



Bill Deguara
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 215
Dogs 2 / Races 0

09 Feb 2022 02:07


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Sandro. Good post mate.I have tried on many occasions to get someone at GRNSW to actually reply to some very important questions about our sport,Keeping the general public informed about what is and what is'nt going on has been one of my main concerns where nobody seems to ever reply or defend our sport on any sort of MEDIA OUTLET.i FIND IT BIZZARE THAT WHILE OUR SPORT IS REALLY FIRING our leaders seem to forget that they are still out there you know the ones and we cannot ease up because they will never give up trying to bring us down.Putting up millions of dollar in prize money is well and good but Spending some of it ON QUALITY POSITIVE ADVERTIZING WOULD CERTAINLY HELP KEEPING US WHERE WE ARE.



Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2092
Dogs 0 / Races 0

09 Feb 2022 04:00


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Bill Deguara wrote:

Sandro. Good post mate.I have tried on many occasions to get someone at GRNSW to actually reply to some very important questions about our sport,Keeping the general public informed about what is and what is'nt going on has been one of my main concerns where nobody seems to ever reply or defend our sport on any sort of MEDIA OUTLET.i FIND IT BIZZARE THAT WHILE OUR SPORT IS REALLY FIRING our leaders seem to forget that they are still out there you know the ones and we cannot ease up because they will never give up trying to bring us down.Putting up millions of dollar in prize money is well and good but Spending some of it ON QUALITY POSITIVE ADVERTIZING WOULD CERTAINLY HELP KEEPING US WHERE WE ARE.

Bill, it's that and more.

For example, I have drawn attention to incorrect rubbish pounded out by Peter FitzSimmons (sourced from AA) in SMH yet no reversal has ever appeared in the paper. I have tried but I lack the oomph to
gain the editor's notice

The same applied to an earlier feature article in the weekend supplement.

Incidentally, the SMH has now completely eliminated any mention whatever of greyhounds - form, results, everything. The Australian never did anyway, leaving the Tele as the sole evidence that the code is alive and doing reasonably well. (Fortunately, the Murdoch empire has many stakes in greyhound and other racing so that will continue).

However, before getting into specific product advertising it is important to first elevate the breed to a status which the public will appreciate. That means lots of stuff about its unique nature, abilities and history, as well as the people involved in making that happen. With the right background you will then get bonus returns on future advertising and patronage. Not before.

Right now, we are no more than a four-legged poker machine and an easy target for antis, regardless of profitability. GWIC is doing some useful work but the public will never read their stuff - or GRNSW'.


Bill Deguara
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 215
Dogs 2 / Races 0

09 Feb 2022 06:02


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Sandro I sent you Pm. Please see what you think Slightly off topic but important just the same,



Michael Bowerman
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 4615
Dogs 11 / Races 0

09 Feb 2022 07:41


 (1)
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Bruce Teague wrote:

Bill Deguara wrote:

Sandro. Good post mate.I have tried on many occasions to get someone at GRNSW to actually reply to some very important questions about our sport,Keeping the general public informed about what is and what is'nt going on has been one of my main concerns where nobody seems to ever reply or defend our sport on any sort of MEDIA OUTLET.i FIND IT BIZZARE THAT WHILE OUR SPORT IS REALLY FIRING our leaders seem to forget that they are still out there you know the ones and we cannot ease up because they will never give up trying to bring us down.Putting up millions of dollar in prize money is well and good but Spending some of it ON QUALITY POSITIVE ADVERTIZING WOULD CERTAINLY HELP KEEPING US WHERE WE ARE.

Bill, it's that and more.

For example, I have drawn attention to incorrect rubbish pounded out by Peter FitzSimmons (sourced from AA) in SMH yet no reversal has ever appeared in the paper. I have tried but I lack the oomph to
gain the editor's notice

The same applied to an earlier feature article in the weekend supplement.

Incidentally, the SMH has now completely eliminated any mention whatever of greyhounds - form, results, everything. The Australian never did anyway, leaving the Tele as the sole evidence that the code is alive and doing reasonably well. (Fortunately, the Murdoch empire has many stakes in greyhound and other racing so that will continue).

However, before getting into specific product advertising it is important to first elevate the breed to a status which the public will appreciate. That means lots of stuff about its unique nature, abilities and history, as well as the people involved in making that happen. With the right background you will then get bonus returns on future advertising and patronage. Not before.

Right now, we are no more than a four-legged poker machine and an easy target for antis, regardless of profitability. GWIC is doing some useful work but the public will never read their stuff - or GRNSW'.

bruce no wounder the anti attack us when all most can talk about live baiting, it a mift , greyhounds does not wont live bait, they are a site hound, all u need to do is take your dogs for walks through the bush they see things witch gets there adrenalin up, i cant believe that this is thread still going, we been to hell once , now some wont take us back there,




Graham Moscow
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1186
Dogs 0 / Races 0

09 Feb 2022 08:58


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Thanks Grafton for implementing a common sense practice. I hope someone keeps records for FTP infringements at Grafton for n year then compare to other tracks FTP figures.
IMO the FTP infringements will drop drastically. Thanks Grafton club committee .
Dogs need reward of some sort.

My Irish Grandmother would tell me greyhound stories from generations before her.
Ireland potato famine killed heaps of folk by starvation, many fled to USA
Many that survived were grateful to the family greyhound for coursing a much needed meal.
When circle track racing commenced in Ireland many coursing dogs converted to mechanical lure racing, however after a number of years later many greyhounds wouldnt convert. The breed split traits. Coursing dogs would chase live game while mechanical lure greyhounds were bred to chase rabbits skin or fabric lures.
We have come a long way in the breed to get the fastest dogs in the world chasing artificial lures.
My Grandmother preached if a greyhound loves its trainer it will chase harder regardless what it chases


Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2092
Dogs 0 / Races 0

09 Feb 2022 22:16


 (1)
 (0)


Michael,

Re "bruce no wounder the anti attack us when all most can talk about live baiting, it a mift , greyhounds does not wont live bait, they are a site hound, all u need to do is take your dogs for walks through the bush they see things witch gets there adrenalin up, i cant believe that this is thread still going, we been to hell once , now some wont take us back there,"

They talk about live baiting, to be sure, but these days they are more onto injuries and gambling. What GWIC is reporting is good but it is not getting to the right people

That's why I keep pushing for more fundamental promotion of the breed and its unique position in the animal world. Here's one small approach - training greyhounds was "The Sport of Kings" from and before King Henry VIII, by court law in fact, not so much horses although they were always valued.

First build the platform and then add the flowery bits.




Jason Bolwell
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 130
Dogs 44 / Races 1

09 Feb 2022 22:23


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Michael,
I don't see any issue with discussing this, it is the main reason we have dogs playing and not focusing. People in the industry with your mind set are the major issue because 1. No matter what we do the antis want us shut down 2. if you know that to be true why take away all the dogs natural instincts to please people who will ever be happy with our product?



Grant Dunphy
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 743
Dogs 4 / Races 1

10 Feb 2022 20:35


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 (0)


It is unfortunate that this thread has the title it does as it is a brutal, unacceptable practice-it is really about the reasons we seem to have more dogs not chasing properly now.I'm not sure but I feel there are more now but I believe this thread's title should be changed & maybe one of the controllers could do that.
Personally I have a synthetic lure with a good squeaker which I use in the bullring & at the track for trials & always find it very effective.
However I do believe as I have said before that the same should be used for follow ons in all racing & this would go a long way to keeping the dogs keen.



Grant Dunphy
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 743
Dogs 4 / Races 1

10 Feb 2022 20:37


 (0)
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It is unfortunate that this thread has the title it does as it is a brutal, unacceptable practice-The thread is really about the reasons we seem to have more dogs not chasing properly now.I'm not sure but I feel there are more now but I believe this thread's title should be changed & maybe one of the controllers could do that.
Personally I have a synthetic lure with a good squeaker which I use in the bullring & at the track for trials & always find it very effective.
However I do believe as I have said before that the same should be used for follow ons in all racing & this would go a long way to keeping the dogs keen.


Jeff Guy
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 253
Dogs 10 / Races 118

10 Feb 2022 23:05


 (2)
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This is the first sentence on thread..

So our Prime Minister Scott Morrison can tease a croc with bait on a stick we call baiting in greyhound racing ..????

Some are missing the point.


Bill Deguara
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 215
Dogs 2 / Races 0

11 Feb 2022 03:47


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OBVIOUSLY THE

CROC IS NOT A GREY HOUND

posts 37page  1 2