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Peter Cohen Australia (Verified User) Posts 5343 Dogs 6 / Races 0 08 Jun 2009 04:13
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What are some of the NSW peoples thoughts on the FOL i for one dont want it and have spoken to quiet a few trainers with big teams in work that also dont want it what are your thoughts?
Malcolm Smart Australia (Verified User) Posts 12802 Dogs 19 / Races 34 08 Jun 2009 04:32
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don't like the idea, Reason1) say a dog runs last in your race, not expected to run last but does,finishes on with the rest of the field, goes to the vet the next day, vet tells him the reason the dog ran last is because he has a virus, so now he has infected the rest of the field, not to mention the runners in the following races...reason 2) as described on a page on this forum, a dog is drugged he runs 2nd finishes on to lure with the winner , salive exchanges, and BINGO, you have a positive, could be minute but a positive is a positive....
Peter Cohen Australia (Verified User) Posts 5343 Dogs 6 / Races 0 08 Jun 2009 05:02
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Another good point Mal not only salive mate also blood from cut mouths etc
Jaime Lloyd Australia (Verified User) Posts 1022 Dogs 60 / Races 4 08 Jun 2009 05:30
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If the FOL comes to NSW then i put forward my apology now to anyone my big Enforcer pup verses.
1st or last he will charge into the lure - So if there is a dog in the way - Expect some damage i know my bloke wont ease onto it - Its a case of ''you move... or BE MOVED''
Gary Hutchinson Australia (Verified User) Posts 190 Dogs 3 / Races 0 08 Jun 2009 07:05
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Jamie Get Brad to talk to his Adelaide contacts about the FOL at Angle Park.The idea is that the dogs are eased onto the lure,by a gradual slowing of the lure.This ensures that all the dogs are slowing at the same rate as the lure comes to it's eventual halt.There are no dogs suddenly appearing at top speed into dogs that have slowed right down or stopped. This has been trialled here for a while now and is being used on the Wednesday morning meetings.All appears good so far
Peter Cohen Australia (Verified User) Posts 5343 Dogs 6 / Races 0 08 Jun 2009 07:26
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Gary Hutchinson wrote:
Jamie Get Brad to talk to his Adelaide contacts about the FOL at Angle Park.The idea is that the dogs are eased onto the lure,by a gradual slowing of the lure.This ensures that all the dogs are slowing at the same rate as the lure comes to it's eventual halt.There are no dogs suddenly appearing at top speed into dogs that have slowed right down or stopped. This has been trialled here for a while now and is being used on the Wednesday morning meetings.All appears good so far
Gary so what if you are lucky enough to have a dog that wins by 5 or ten lenths ? that theory goes out the window
Mal Dawson Australia (Verified User) Posts 5640 Dogs 27 / Races 65 08 Jun 2009 07:34
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peter cohen wrote:
Gary Hutchinson wrote:
Jamie Get Brad to talk to his Adelaide contacts about the FOL at Angle Park.The idea is that the dogs are eased onto the lure,by a gradual slowing of the lure.This ensures that all the dogs are slowing at the same rate as the lure comes to it's eventual halt.There are no dogs suddenly appearing at top speed into dogs that have slowed right down or stopped. This has been trialled here for a while now and is being used on the Wednesday morning meetings.All appears good so far
Gary so what if you are lucky enough to have a dog that wins by 5 or ten lenths ? that theory goes out the window
YOUR SAFE PETE LOL
Gary Hutchinson Australia (Verified User) Posts 190 Dogs 3 / Races 0 08 Jun 2009 07:36
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Peter You need to go and see this type of lure in action,as I think that you don't quite understand how it operates. If a dog wins by 10 lengths,it is then allowed to ease onto the lure...which is very gradually slowing down.The 10 lengths are very quickly deminished as the lure has taken the speed away from the lead dog. At Angle park and Albion park,the lure sometimes gets around to the 700 start boxes before it reaches a complete halt...bringing ALL the dogs to a gradual and safe stop together.
Jaime Lloyd Australia (Verified User) Posts 1022 Dogs 60 / Races 4 08 Jun 2009 07:38
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Gary both of your assumptions are incorrect.
I have been notified by my OWN SA connections and theyre quite content with the lure. Which is good for them, they got it.
I have also tried the lure HENCE my above comment. I didnt pull it out of thin air i am saying it because my dog doesnt understand what EASING is. Its full on 24/7 at everything he does.
As per stated FROM EXPERIENCE my dog WILL clobber anything at high pace in his way. He is one mad dog.
Also on ANOTHER occasion when i tried it. Bitch finished on, dog who doesnt kill decided to take off down the track. Bitch thought hey where u going and she took off too. Someone left 600m gate open so bitch decided to go play chicken and chase cars while the dog ran to the 500m boxes, can back to the short boxes (where i slipped him from) then back to 500 - Going full ball so catching him was difficult.
I gave 2 of my dogs a trial together - End result, one couldve died of acidosis after id say doing a 2km blitz (and he wasnt walking it... hence hard to catch him) while the bitch almost got hit by a car. Not your normal day of trialling when ive used a catching pen!
Jaime Lloyd Australia (Verified User) Posts 1022 Dogs 60 / Races 4 08 Jun 2009 07:42
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Also in stating the above i know this doesnt happen all the time but dont they say FIRST IMPRESSION IS THE MOST IMPORTANT.
Was not a good start to my introduction to the lure. But if it comes into NSW ill have to cop it on the chin and deal with it... and remind everyone i did apologise already in this thread. Altho with such a mad dog ill accept that pen or FOL... neither are ideal for this mental case of a dog.
Gary Hutchinson Australia (Verified User) Posts 190 Dogs 3 / Races 0 08 Jun 2009 07:47
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Jaime Lloyd wrote:
Gary both of your assumptions are incorrect.
I have been notified by my OWN SA connections and theyre quite content with the lure. Which is good for them, they got it.
I have also tried the lure HENCE my above comment. I didnt pull it out of thin air i am saying it because my dog doesnt understand what EASING is. Its full on 24/7 at everything he does.
As per stated FROM EXPERIENCE my dog WILL clobber anything at high pace in his way. He is one mad dog.
Also on ANOTHER occasion when i tried it. Bitch finished on, dog who doesnt kill decided to take off down the track. Bitch thought hey where u going and she took off too. Someone left 600m gate open so bitch decided to go play chicken and chase cars while the dog ran to the 500m boxes, can back to the short boxes (where i slipped him from) then back to 500 - Going full ball so catching him was difficult.
I gave 2 of my dogs a trial together - End result, one couldve died of acidosis after id say doing a 2km blitz (and he wasnt walking it... hence hard to catch him) while the bitch almost got hit by a car. Not your normal day of trialling when ive used a catching pen!
Jamie Point taken....he does sound like a handful,But wouldn't that make him even more of a danger to other dogs within the confines of a catching pen?
Tom Flanagan Australia (Verified User) Posts 7250 Dogs 974 / Races 1022 08 Jun 2009 07:53
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Jaime - at Albion Park they still pull a screen across the track to stop the dogs going for a run.
I'm looking forward to the finish on in NSW - nothing's perfect but it will reduce the chances of my bitch being picked on by psycho dogs that have nothing else to focus on - and some dogs will not just run into other dogs - they physically attack the first dog they can get hold of in the pen - such dogs should be banned from racing in my view - but the finish on is the next best option as long as they take to the lure rather than other dogs at the finish.
It's hard enough to keep them sound without having to worry about them being attacked - it happened to my bitch in her first two field trials at Lismore - she won them both but it got turned into a bad experience each time. Give me the finish on any day.
Cheers, Tom
Jaime Lloyd Australia (Verified User) Posts 1022 Dogs 60 / Races 4 08 Jun 2009 08:02
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Gary Hutchinson wrote:
Jamie Point taken....he does sound like a handful,But wouldn't that make him even more of a danger to other dogs within the confines of a catching pen?
Read my other post above.
Peter Cohen Australia (Verified User) Posts 5343 Dogs 6 / Races 0 08 Jun 2009 09:25
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Tom Flanagan wrote:
Jaime - at Albion Park they still pull a screen across the track to stop the dogs going for a run.
I'm looking forward to the finish on in NSW - nothing's perfect but it will reduce the chances of my bitch being picked on by psycho dogs that have nothing else to focus on - and some dogs will not just run into other dogs - they physically attack the first dog they can get hold of in the pen - such dogs should be banned from racing in my view - but the finish on is the next best option as long as they take to the lure rather than other dogs at the finish.
It's hard enough to keep them sound without having to worry about them being attacked - it happened to my bitch in her first two field trials at Lismore - she won them both but it got turned into a bad experience each time. Give me the finish on any day.
Cheers, Tom
Tom so if every time you trial or race a dog you want him to finnish on is that the way you want to train your greys?
Scott Parkes Australia (Verified User) Posts 632 Dogs 79 / Races 75 08 Jun 2009 09:56
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I own dogs and am all for the finish on to decrease the chance of injury...yes the sky will fall in and the cows wont lay eggs.
Seriously saliva transfer!
Tom Flanagan Australia (Verified User) Posts 7250 Dogs 974 / Races 1022 08 Jun 2009 10:17
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peter cohen wrote:
Tom Flanagan wrote:
Jaime - at Albion Park they still pull a screen across the track to stop the dogs going for a run.
I'm looking forward to the finish on in NSW - nothing's perfect but it will reduce the chances of my bitch being picked on by psycho dogs that have nothing else to focus on - and some dogs will not just run into other dogs - they physically attack the first dog they can get hold of in the pen - such dogs should be banned from racing in my view - but the finish on is the next best option as long as they take to the lure rather than other dogs at the finish.
It's hard enough to keep them sound without having to worry about them being attacked - it happened to my bitch in her first two field trials at Lismore - she won them both but it got turned into a bad experience each time. Give me the finish on any day.
Cheers, Tom
Tom so if every time you trial or race a dog you want him to finnish on is that the way you want to train your greys?
Peter, when I solo trial them, sometimes they finish on but mostly they go into the pen - I'm happy to keep it that way - not expecting that option to be removed at my local tracks. Cheers, Tom
Pat Hennessy Australia (Verified User) Posts 1553 Dogs 6 / Races 6 08 Jun 2009 10:57
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Gary Hutchinson: If the FOL is adopted at Angle Park and sometime in the future your dog is swabbed and returns positive, you know you are completely innocent.
What would be your likely course of action ?
Cheers.
Gary Hutchinson Australia (Verified User) Posts 190 Dogs 3 / Races 0 08 Jun 2009 11:11
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Pat The same course of action as if my dog returns a positive behind the normal lure into the pen. Read Sandros comment....FOL..A defence for a Positive Swab,Page 2.. He has spoken with the NZ trainers and they don't have any of the issues that you are trying to bring up. People are naturally wary of change,but all the indications so far are that the FOL is a success.Don't become paranoid about positives being returned from the lure...it appears to me that most dogs don't get a true bite on it ,more like a push with the muzzle.
Peter Sparsis Australia (Verified User) Posts 1256 Dogs 10 / Races 26 08 Jun 2009 11:20
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If a trainer gets his appeal for a positive swab overturned due to a spectator patting his dog I hardly think possibility of positive swabs due to the FOL is really that big an issue. Personally I don't really want to see the FOL here, my dogs are too hyper for the lure and they would launch at it and be a chance of doin serious injury to themselves or the dogs around them
Pat Hennessy Australia (Verified User) Posts 1553 Dogs 6 / Races 6 08 Jun 2009 11:47
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Gary Hutchinson wrote:
Pat The same course of action as if my dog returns a positive behind the normal lure into the pen. Read Sandros comment....FOL..A defence for a Positive Swab,Page 2.. He has spoken with the NZ trainers and they don't have any of the issues that you are trying to bring up. People are naturally wary of change,but all the indications so far are that the FOL is a success.Don't become paranoid about positives being returned from the lure...it appears to me that most dogs don't get a true bite on it ,more like a push with the muzzle.
Gary, I take it from that reply "That you would just cop it sweet" even though your good name may be blackened and you stand to have many thousands of dollars taken from you"
By the way the Sandown Club through their CEO have broached this subject, i'm merely the messenger. They have grave concerns that the use of this lure may lead to the above defence being used, and i agree, it may well be.
Do you have questions about greyhound racing?
