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Mirror Image 9

Joseph Dotters
Ireland
(Verified User)
Posts 154
Dogs 0 / Races 0

14 Jul 2018 12:17


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Sorry I should have wrote that this posts is a continuation of my last posts on this forum title Mirror Image 8.
O K lets begin now whenever Teofilo won the Dewhurst Stakes at in October 2006 I revisited an idea I had about Galileo whenever he first won the Epsom Derby in June 2001, that when I realized that if one removed Raise a Native, Native Danncer and Polynesian completely from Galileos pedigree one would find the exact same symmetry that one found in the pedigree of Monalee Champion.
This time Galileo had the results on the ground to back this theory up but there was one thing glaringly wrong according to my findings the mother of the thoroughbred version of Monalee Champion should have been a daughter of Mr Prospectors son Machiavellian.
Galileos mother Urban Sea was a daughter of Mr Prospectors son Miswaki this was something I could not figure out no doubt Galileo had the results on the ground Northern Dancer was in the correct position in his pedigree, Mr Prospector was in the correct position in his pedigree and the pedigree of Sadlers Wells was correct.
Also as his sire was 25 years old in 2006 time was running out for a son of his out of a mare by Machiavellian to hit the big time on the track so everything pointed to Galileo, its interesting because if one looks at my Leading Sire Tables for the years 2002 and 2003 for the North and South of Ireland one can see these results.

YEAR 2002 in Racing Greyhound Similar Evolution remember is equivalent to the year 2071 in Thoroughbred Similar Evolutionary Terms

HI THERE 32 SIRES 161 WINNERS (44%)
CHAMPION PRINCE 22 SIRES 132 WINNERS (37%)
No Hi There or Champion Prince 19 SIRES 61 WINNERS (18%)

So 161 individual parental sire line descendants of Hi There won feature events over a certain value during 2002, now 4 of Hi Theres 32 parental sire line descendants who produced 12 individual winners of feature events over a certain value did not have the name of Monalee Champion on their parental sire lines as well as the name of Hi There and 12 amounts to 7% of 161.

YEAR 2003 in Racing Greyhound Similar Evolution remember is equivalent to the year 2073 in Thoroughbred Similar Evolutionary Terms

HI THERE 27 SIRES 128 WINNERS (35%)
CHAMPION PRINCE 22 SIRES 176 WINNERS (47%)
No Hi There or Champion Prince 19 SIRES 67 WINNERS (18%)

So 128 individual parental sire line descendants of Hi There won feature events over a certain value during 2003, now 7 of Hi Theres 27 parental sire line descendants who produced 16 individual winners of feature events over a certain value did not have the name of Monalee Champion on their parental sire lines as well as the name of Hi There and 16 amounts to 13% of 128.
So one can see the huge part played by Monalee Champion in the evolutionary history of the Hi There parental sire line, so is Galileo going to play a similar part in the evolutionary history of the Northern Dancer sire line?
Whatever way thoroughbred evolution implements things surely it has to bring Machiavellian into the equation some how or other, but in 2007 I had no option but to think of Galileo as a Way Forward Animal.
At the end of 2009 due to the performances of Sea the Stars I had a clue or assumed I had a clue to the way things might pan out, lets have a look at his pedigree EXTERNAL LINK so you can see from his pedigree that he is a half brother of Galileos and also Northern Dancer is 4 removes back along his parental sire line.
Now as Shamardal had been a great performer in 2005 as his dam Helsinki was a daughter of Machiavellian and Northern Dancer was 4 removes back along his parental sire line I thought to myself this could be the way forward.
As Shamardal first Northern Hemisphere crop included Arctic rated 114 by the Racing Post and Lope De Vega rated 112, I would have had to hypothetically use that stallion his stud fee for 2010 was 20,000 Euros.
As Dark Angel ran only as a 2-y-o in 2007 he would have escaped under the radar a bit but suppose as he produced Tough as Nails rated 110, I would have had to hypothetically use him, his stud fee for 2012 was 12, 500 Euros.
Although Northern Dancer was 5 removes back along his parental sire line the fact that the sire of Princess Athena the dam of his parental grandsire Acclamation was by Ahonoora also the sire of Park Appeal the dam of Sea The Stars parental grandsire Cape Cross seem to smooth things out so to speak.
A leading French 2 y o of 2008 Naaqoos would have no doubt come under the radar, now this horse had a few races in 2009 and retired to stud 2010 and I would have had to use him in his first covering season if I intended to sell the produce his stud fee was 6000 Euros.
In 2012 there was 26 of his yearlings sold the highest amount given was for a colt who made 95, 796 at the October sales in Newmarket his average was 23,170, I personally do not know if that is good or bad.
His first two crops run in 2013 and 2014 with his highest rated racehorse was the mare Bhaktapur who was rated 96 so as Naaqoos did not produce a racehorse rated at least 110 in either of his first two crops I would not have used him.
Zoffany would have come under the radar also and I would have had to use him in 2012 if I wished to sell the produce his stud fee was 7,500 Euros, his first crop was successful in 2015 with three 2-y-os rated 110 or above and his stud fee increased to 45,000 Euros for the 2016 covering season I would have had to hypothetically use him and as Taranto the dam of Territories was also by Machiavellian he would have come under the radar also and I would have hypothetically used him in 2017 his stud fee that year was 12,000,

Sorry in my haste I left this important piece out it actually should have been posted as part of Mirror image 9, O K here goes with this Monalee Champion has a very important feature in his pedigree that his thoroughbred version Galileo dose not have and I am referring to again about the fact again about Machiavellian being missing from his pedigree, now not only dose it mean that this is another way in which thoroughbred Similar Evolution has produced a similar evolutionary equivalent to the lets write same animal that has been produced by racing greyhound Similar Evolution only in a slightly different fashion but this has very serious implications for my future interpretations.
Although it mainly affects the way in which I try to interpret the pedigrees of the Way Forward Animals who should be parental sire line descendants of Galileo, remember these animals will be the thoroughbred versions of parental sire line descendants of Monalee Champion greyhounds like Itsachampion, Its Ballyhenry and Shanagarry Duke to name but three but I shall have to take into account this very important missing feature in the pedigree of Galileo when hunting for these similar evolutionary equivalents from thoroughbred breeding, as it stands I do not know how it will be implemented but I assume it must.
Thoroughbred evolution has already implemented the same things in slightly differently ways in the 3rd cycle and I believe it will continue to do so, no doubt to include this missing important feature into the equation as well and as I have written all of this has made my job a lot harder.
I do not breed racehorses myself to sell or to race simply for the fact that my personal finances would not allow me to, yes I could buy racehorse up the upkeep would put my financial lights out, but if I did breed racehorses to sell or to race what is the most effective way I could use my findings.
Well as I have written I claim to have made my big breakthrough in the 1970s while studying the pedigrees of the racing greyhounds now the fact that a racing greyhound with a certain pedigree did not appear on the scene by 1983 set the alarms ringing in my mind.
This racing greyhound never appeared and I gradually entered a long period of frustration that was only rectified by another breakthrough at the end of 2006, I call this period of frustration THE BRICK WALL.
Making my breakthrough at the end of 2006 was akin to switching a light on in a darkened room I could then see things that I never saw before I realized then that Galileo was the thoroughbred version of Monalee Champion.
Up until that time I assumed that Galileos parental grandsire Northern Dancer was the thoroughbred version of Monalee Champion, so I would have thought then that Nearco was the thoroughbred version of Hi There and Polynesian was the thoroughbred version of Champion Prince.
Now Galileo did not have the very important feature of his pedigree that I thought would have been critical and as his sire Sadlers Wells was 25 years old in 2006 time was running out for a son of Sadlers Wells to appear on the scene with this important feature in his pedigree.
So because Galileo had the results on the ground I had to assume that he was the thoroughbred version of Monalee Champion and this very important feature would have to be incorporated in some other way into the bloodlines of these Way Forward Animals and as I have written has made my job a lot harder to boot.
It is important to also take into account the fact that I am not explain all of this as a whole or as a complete picture as I see it but I am leaving out many important threads of logic for the reason that I need to keep something up my sleeve if I ever hope to make a few pounds for all my efforts.
I am trying to strike a balance between giving people enough in the hope that they will form the opinion that I may be onto something and possibly pay to learn more or use some service that I might deliver for payment, so with that in mind what stallions would I have hypothetically bred to for the 2007 covering season to for the covering seasons up to the present day, remember thats if I was a mare owner.
Well my first task would be to interpret the animals that I believe that thoroughbred evolution has highlighted as potential Way Forward Animals remember I may use these stallions that I believe to have been highlighted by thoroughbred evolution as Way Forward Animals until some new information tells me to reject them, as a matter of fact I might reject them only to reinstate them later at a future data, now as the mare carries the foal for eleven months from, conception to birth they are usually covered by stallions from February to July in the Northern Hemisphere.
The second year in the Northern Hemisphere the foals are usually born from January to June, the third year they enter the yearling stage and the fourth year they are 2-y-os and if you look at the stud fees of those stallions during those first four years you usually see a variation in the amount of money their owners charge for a cover.
If one breeds his mare to a new stallion during that stallions first covering year I do not think he can do a lot of damage as that stallion will be unproven when his stock comes up for auction so possibly making that stallions stock more attractive, so one would imagine that this scenario should suit me if I wished to sell the produce.
The make or break seasons for a stallion is usually whenever his produce has run as 2-y-os and then as 3-y-os, so if one of my highlighted stallions has not been replaced with something better by that stage and he has produced at least one racehorse rated 110 or higher by the Racing Post in his first or second crop then I shall keep using that stallion if I think his stud fee still represents value for money.
Now if I had decided to race the produce I would not breed to any racehorse that I had interpreted as being highlighted by thoroughbred evolution as a possible Way Forward Animal during his first covering season but I would wait until that stallion had produced a racehorse rated at least 110 by the Racing Post by the end of his first or second year at stud before committing myself further, and I would take it from there.
No doubt his stud fee would increase to reflect his success but if one had the finances one would have to go with that




David Brasch
Australia
(Team Member)
Posts 844
Dogs 2139 / Races 9672

14 Jul 2018 21:15


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Joseph

Fascinating read.
Your final few paragraphs are very apt.
PROVEN sires ... stallions or stud dogs.

Loved it all.

David



Richard Gray
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2231
Dogs 11 / Races 9

15 Jul 2018 08:54


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 (0)


Terrific read Joseph. And agreeing with David here as I have used 2 unproven sires for my past 2 litters...

Rich.

"If one breeds his mare to a new stallion during that stallions first covering year I do not think he can do a lot of damage as that stallion will be unproven when his stock comes up for auction so possibly making that stallions stock more attractive, so one would imagine that this scenario should suit me if I wished to sell the produce.
The make or break seasons for a stallion is usually whenever his produce has run as 2-y-os and then as 3-y-os, so if one of my highlighted stallions has not been replaced with something better by that stage and he has produced at least one racehorse rated 110 or higher by the Racing Post in his first or second crop then I shall keep using that stallion if I think his stud fee still represents value for money.
Now if I had decided to race the produce I would not breed to any racehorse that I had interpreted as being highlighted by thoroughbred evolution as a possible Way Forward Animal during his first covering season but I would wait until that stallion had produced a racehorse rated at least 110 by the Racing Post by the end of his first or second year at stud before committing myself further, and I would take it from there.
No doubt his stud fee would increase to reflect his success but if one had the finances one would have to go with that"



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