home - to The Greyhound-Database
Home  |  Dog-Search  |  Dogs ID  |  Races  |  Race Cards  |  Coursing  |  Tracks  |  Statistic  |  Testmating  |  Kennels  
 
Facebook
Login  |    |  add_race  |  add_coursing  |  add_dog  |  Membership  |  Advertising  |  Ask the Vet    Help  print pedigree      
TV  |  Active-Sires  |  Sire-Pages  |  Which Sire?  |  Classifieds  |  Auctions  |  Photos  |  Videos  |  Library  |  Adoption  |  Forum  |  About_us  |  Site Usage

Welcome to the Greyhound Knowledge Forum

   

The Greyhound-Data Forum has been created to act as a platform for greyhound enthusiasts to share information on this magnificent animal called a greyhound.

Greyhound-Data reserve the right to remove any post that is off topic, advertisements or opinions they consider to be offensive.

Please read the forum usage manual please note:

If you answer then please try to stay on topic. It's absolutely okay to answer in a broader scope but don't hijack posts by switching to something off topic.

In case you see an insulting post: DO NOT REPLY TO IT!
Use the report button to inform the moderators so that we can delete it.

Read more...

All TopicsFor SaleGD-WebsiteBreedingHealthRacingCoursingRetirementBettingTalkLogin to post
Do you have a question about betting, totes, odds or recent racing result
Then this is the place to ask them.

Someone explain this....page  1 2 


Mark Schlegel
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 3168
Dogs 9 / Races 5

14 Sep 2011 12:19


 (0)
 (0)


I had a bit of a flutter tonight at my local and backed a placed dog that showed $6 something as the lids went up.

It was a 550m race at Ballarat so by the time the race was over, the placings finalised and the prices put up on Sky, at least 60 secs had passed.

The price put up on the screen at the end of the race was still $5.80. There was nothing else on for a little while so the dividends were left on the screen for at least another 30 secs. I kept an eye on the screen but the price stayed steady at $5.80

About 10 secs later I collected.

WTF! All of a suddden my dividend has crashed into $2.70 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Excuse the French....but that is FLAPPIN BULLTISH!

Stopping betting once the green light is turned on was brought in SPECIFICALLY to allow the TAB to have fully updated and FINAL dividends worked out by the time the race finishes.

So someone please explain to me how a computer system can't work out final dividends in 90 odd seconds???

I'm not much for conspiracy theories but I'm honestly starting to think there is something dodgy going on. I can't remember the dividends (win or place) magically doubling 30 secs AFTER a race, but it sure as hell seems like they suddenly halve the dividend long after the race has been run FAR too often!
It's truly amazing how many punters must be so lucky as to back the winner/placegetters in the last 2 secs.......PFFFT

End of rant.


Paul Matthews
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1850
Dogs 73 / Races 22

14 Sep 2011 13:13


 (0)
 (0)


I know one way to get back at them mark dont punt lol



Peter Gurry
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 7249
Dogs 15 / Races 25

15 Sep 2011 15:20


 (0)
 (0)


Mark Schlegel wrote:

I had a bit of a flutter tonight at my local and backed a placed dog that showed $6 something as the lids went up.

It was a 550m race at Ballarat so by the time the race was over, the placings finalised and the prices put up on Sky, at least 60 secs had passed.

The price put up on the screen at the end of the race was still $5.80. There was nothing else on for a little while so the dividends were left on the screen for at least another 30 secs. I kept an eye on the screen but the price stayed steady at $5.80

About 10 secs later I collected.

WTF! All of a suddden my dividend has crashed into $2.70 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Excuse the French....but that is FLAPPIN BULLTISH!

Stopping betting once the green light is turned on was brought in SPECIFICALLY to allow the TAB to have fully updated and FINAL dividends worked out by the time the race finishes.

So someone please explain to me how a computer system can't work out final dividends in 90 odd seconds???

I'm not much for conspiracy theories but I'm honestly starting to think there is something dodgy going on. I can't remember the dividends (win or place) magically doubling 30 secs AFTER a race, but it sure as hell seems like they suddenly halve the dividend long after the race has been run FAR too often!
It's truly amazing how many punters must be so lucky as to back the winner/placegetters in the last 2 secs.......PFFFT

End of rant.

In your case mark find out who put the lazy 25k on no 8
because the less 15% for TABs take comes out of your pool as they had to pay back 27.5K for all bets placed on 8. Had 8 not been placed your $5.80 would have jumped to $20.30 per unit. Funny how they always run a place. Happened in the race before hence your dividend being halved.




Alex Taylor
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1607
Dogs 6 / Races 38

17 Sep 2011 08:17


 (0)
 (0)


Mark,

When you're at a TAB, check the win pool when the green light goes on and watch what it is after the race. It usually doubles or is a significant amount percentage wise. This is supposedly due to the rush in the last minute or less where many make their decisions after watching fluctuations etc. It is annoying and is also why I bet where I can get either middle tote or spread my investments over the 3 totes. Like you say, it never doubles but that is usually because there may have been a sizeable 'in the know' bet.



Alex Taylor
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1607
Dogs 6 / Races 38

17 Sep 2011 08:23


 (0)
 (0)


Just looked up the race in question, Mark. This is what is displayed on the Supertab results page. I have posted this at 5.21pm on Saturday 17th so you would say these would be final pools and official diviends. The result above showed Galaxy High return $2.70 for the place. The 4 dog returned officially $1.70 but showing $3.50 in the Final pools. Never seen this before. Something wrong. Maybe call TAB Customer Service and see how they squirm out of it.

1 KILTANON RUFUS M G McKinnon 13.70 5.20
2 MATANG E M Steel 62.10 16.30
3 GALAXY HIGH D B Curtain 9.10 5.80
4 SHOW ME HOW P C Anderton 7.90 3.50
5 SMASHVILLE P C Anderton 25.00 9.80
6 UNO STELLA STAR M M Hirtzel 57.30 15.70
7 BLACK RAGE M C Morrissey 36.40 11.10
8 KID PALMER W A Vassallo 1.30 1.00
9 SERENE PASSION H L Collins Scr Scr Scr Scr
10 WONGAWILLI SIMON A Cole Scr Scr Scr Scr

Sub = 8. KID PALMER

> Win > Place > Quinella Exacta > First 4
$29,348.44 $34,931.78 $2,789.99 $1,911.50 $5,974.47
Trifecta > Quaddie Daily Double Duet Running Double(6, 7)
$14,927.00 $44,748.52 $2,113.50 $706.00 $337.00



Adam Jones
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2275
Dogs 0 / Races 1

17 Sep 2011 09:58


 (0)
 (0)


I imagen Kid Palmer placed yes ? the odds are inflated as there is a large place bet on kid palmer, if Kid palmer didnt't place you would've recevied the dividend you expected.

This happened to me late one night, I was having a flutter on late night english horse racing, the odds came up with a 50k place bet on the favouirite, blowing most other runners out to 100.00 a place, I was quick and placed money on each of the 100.00-1 horses for a place, the favourite won and the dividends crashed, I rang the TAB and they explained to me the reason, it made sense,(the 50k has to go back to the punter who placed it at 1.00, money back plus the 7% they recieve for being a "high roller, if it didn't place the 50k remains in the pool and the 100.00 a place would stand on the other runners) 2 of mine placed and if the 1.00 shot didnt place I would've cleaned up.

these kind of bets are placed by professionals, they recieve 7% return on any bet they place with the TAB, so when they find "a sure thing" they sometimes unload on it just for the 7% return knowing that it will pay 1.00 a place, if they get it wrong and it misses you can clean up, you just have to be on the ball and when you see it get on the other runners.

PS. I just noticed, notice that place pool in this race is larger then the win pool, this is exactly what would've happened.



Alex Taylor
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1607
Dogs 6 / Races 38

11 Oct 2011 22:33


 (0)
 (0)


So, in effect, they took money from the punters who backed the other placegetters to pay for the refund on the Kid Palmer place bettors.


Ryan Vanderwert
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1801
Dogs 6 / Races 0

12 Oct 2011 00:17


 (0)
 (0)


adam jones wrote:

.................these kind of bets are placed by professionals, they recieve 7% return on any bet they place with the TAB, so when they find "a sure thing" they sometimes unload on it just for the 7% return knowing that it will pay 1.00 a place, if they get it wrong and it misses you can clean up, you just have to be on the ball and when you see it get on the other runners.

PS. I just noticed, notice that place pool in this race is larger then the win pool, this is exactly what would've happened.

and u were having a go at me about explaining form ? lol.

I'll have to go back to work again. thx Adam.



Alex Taylor
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1607
Dogs 6 / Races 38

12 Oct 2011 23:27


 (0)
 (0)


That should still come under 'Tote manipulation' but I'm sure there is a clause there someowhere covering their butts.

They have a $25,000 bet knowing they they will make a $1750 profit if it runs a place and the TAB still take out their 14.25%. Therefore the $1750 commission has to come from somewhere so they take it from the other placegetters. That's robbery, theft, whatever you want to call it. If they had a $200,000 place bet to recieve the $14,000 commission, to pay for that, all other runners would be returning $1.04 or $1.10 if the pool was totalling the average + 200K.



Alex Taylor
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1607
Dogs 6 / Races 38

19 Oct 2011 10:10


 (0)
 (0)


Another wierd dividend on NSW tote on Sunday 16th at Albion Park greys. Winner paid $8 win and $102.60 for the place. There was $4k in win pool and $718.50 in place pool. That would indicate there was only $2 bet on the winner to place.



Glenn Hatton
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 4793
Dogs 92 / Races 98

19 Oct 2011 11:16


 (0)
 (0)


Just another example why the 3 pools should merge.


Peter Sparsis
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1256
Dogs 10 / Races 26

19 Oct 2011 13:47


 (0)
 (0)


I really think something dodgy is going on. It is very very rare that you see a dog in the market that jumps to the lead and does not end up tumbling into far less than the quoted price when the pools are closed. I do believe that certain operators are getting on after the jump, either that or cancelling big bets straight after the jump after they see their dog has missed the kick. If they have say a 10 second leeway to cancel tickets during a race what is to stop operators putting 5k the place on several dogs and cancelling those that miss the jump. Its becoming very hard to win betting on the tab, my days of betting bigger amounts with them are over


Peter Sparsis
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1256
Dogs 10 / Races 26

19 Oct 2011 13:49


 (0)
 (0)


glenn hatton wrote:

Just another example why the 3 pools should merge.


100% agree. Why we can't have a tab merged for all of Australians to punt on is beyond me. Yet again the punters get screwed, especially the greyhound punters where the pools are generally far smaller



Julio Matos
Portugal
(Verified User)
Posts 8
Dogs 29 / Races 6

01 Nov 2011 10:11


 (0)
 (0)


Normally it is thus…


Bill Deguara
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 314
Dogs 4 / Races 1

21 Nov 2011 03:43


 (0)
 (0)


There are plenty of smart hackers out there that can log into a system and use it to their advantage , and I reckon this is happening on the T,A,B,because some of the late changes are inexplainable,


Nick Graham
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1098
Dogs 3 / Races 0

21 Nov 2011 15:26


 (0)
 (0)


bill deguara wrote:

There are plenty of smart hackers out there that can log into a system and use it to their advantage , and I reckon this is happening on the T,A,B,because some of the late changes are inexplainable,

I find it strange there always price changes inwards
I've neve backed a winner that paid $5 and ended up paying $8 but I've been on plenty who where $8 at the end of the race and came into $5



Alex Taylor
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1607
Dogs 6 / Races 38

23 Nov 2011 23:00


 (0)
 (0)


nick graham wrote:

bill deguara wrote:

There are plenty of smart hackers out there that can log into a system and use it to their advantage , and I reckon this is happening on the T,A,B,because some of the late changes are inexplainable,

I find it strange there always price changes inwards
I've neve backed a winner that paid $5 and ended up paying $8 but I've been on plenty who where $8 at the end of the race and came into $5


Although it does look suspicious, the most plausible reason for these occurances is that when the pools are finally updated it could be said that someone 'in the know' has waited until near jump time to put their bets on. Look at the amount in the Win pool at the jump and then the Final amount. You don't see too many of these discrepancies in the main City meetings on a Saturday.


Nick Graham
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1098
Dogs 3 / Races 0

24 Nov 2011 06:29


 (0)
 (0)


Alex Taylor wrote:

nick graham wrote:

bill deguara wrote:

There are plenty of smart hackers out there that can log into a system and use it to their advantage , and I reckon this is happening on the T,A,B,because some of the late changes are inexplainable,

I find it strange there always price changes inwards
I've neve backed a winner that paid $5 and ended up paying $8 but I've been on plenty who where $8 at the end of the race and came into $5


Although it does look suspicious, the most plausible reason for these occurances is that when the pools are finally updated it could be said that someone 'in the know' has waited until near jump time to put their bets on. Look at the amount in the Win pool at the jump and then the Final amount. You don't see too many of these discrepancies in the main City meetings on a Saturday.

fair reason but as a punter how many are in the know? if something firms $3 in a fair pull it means 4 or more dogs must have drifted
whilst i agree last minute "in the know" bets can change a price, there isnt that many "in the know" punters. most of us are mugs..they cant always get it right can they



Peter Gurry
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 7249
Dogs 15 / Races 25

24 Jul 2012 13:52


 (0)
 (0)


Interesting to note that bloke from Tasmania challenging the tax Department trying to say his betting is a hobby and doesn't want to cough up 38 mil in tax. Him and his syndicate have fleeced the pools of TAB's with their no loose computer program for the past decade. You can witness it most weekends the amount they place just as they jump the program calculates how much to put on each runner to get a win out of the pool. They form a syndicate so they don't cross each others path so the computer program knows how much to the final pool will be worth. The TAB's don't care as they take 15% or so regardless who wins. They had a bit on him crying poor on lateline last night ( they didn't detail the above but basically thats what they do)then has the cheek to hide behind a musuem he has set up oh what a good boy am I no sympathy from me mate pay up as I do with my hobby A Term deposit can't hide that from the tax man.


David Plumridge
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 332
Dogs 551 / Races 115

26 Jul 2012 04:19


 (0)
 (0)


and I think I also read somewhere that because of the amount they spend, they also get a rebate (kickback - 6%) on losing bets, but others might know more.

posts 29page  1 2