A quick look at thoroughbreds...every race has fixed odds,,, not greyhounds it's race to race about 12 mins out from the jump.

Even the first race in South Africa which is an hour & half away & another world away has fixed odds up.

For the sake of integrity GRNSW brings in Perfornance trials & all it's rules so the owner & trainer can't get a price for their dog, now when you have a good thing & you wanna have a punt you can't if your an owner/trainer because you're too busy parading your dog!!

What's the point of being the most drug tested sport if it doesn't give us leverage in setting the betting standard with the TAB. If we had fixed odds at Wenty I guarantee the pools would sky rocket

Whose getting shafted again? The owner & breeder, just so the TAB can make more money.

Why can't GRNSW set guidelines for fixed odds on city meetings at least ?? Then we might be able to have a decent bet. Otherwise GRNSW, start giving a few incentives to get the bookies back on track. I'm sick of these corporates & TAB shafting people by pretending to take bets etc...it's a blight on the sport

Glen I think you will find its more to do with how much moneys in the pool.

That's right Glenn...........& they (The owners & breeders) are shrinking by the LITTER(s) (annually)...........When compared to the overall stud-book stats.

An unbelievable blunder !

......and Race 6, Race 7 that I noticed

Bit like the corporates...making up the rules to suit themselves.

Dust off that bookies bag Jeff

The TAB system is a pool of money with a predetermined % taken out of the pool for the operator. It has a mathematical formula to work out odds dependent on the amounts wagered on each runner. So, to answer your question, the amount of money needed to seriously affect the price of a runner would depend on the size of the betting pool.

It is a good system in many ways & the TAB has funded prize money & vision in this country. It's a surprise other countries haven't followed suit, especially England & Ireland who have a huge pub culture (like Australia) & that's originally where the TAB got its major tv coverage...inside pubs.

The corporate bookies are in effect using an insurance model, where they prefer to either take lots of bets off multiple punters, or manage a large punter(loser) separate from their other business.

In the first case the pool of punters tends to overbet the fav at under the odds, making it more profitable than working a normal book, whilst in the second case, they are just letting a loser bet till funds are exhausted.

GRNSW has introduced a gross profits model of charging corps that takes advantage of this business model, and i'm sure if you contact them they will give you the details.

Although biased, as I was one of the first to push this model for greyhounds( I was a leading greyhound bookie, so I know the business), it takes advantage of the real idea behind the business model of the corps, that the only money ever to be won is the 'mug' money. There is no profit in catering to pro or expert punters, even turnover taxes in practice return no profit from this group of punters.

I'm not sure what the current percentage of bets are on the win pools, it used to be 44%, but has reduced.

My view of Irish racing is that it has to follow the trends and increase field sizes to 8 starters, stop preferential draws, and increase competition so as to encourage a growth in wagering on multiples, which is the only product which an industry owned TAB can out-compete the Corps.

Another option to explore is to look at a recent development where some of our 'old' bookies are looking to re-establish on the net, working only the main meetings, not banning punters and offering a minimum to lose per wager.

I think these bookies if offered an industry based on-line wagering platform from which to operate, a lower tax base, and a gross profits tax above a certain return could help re-vitalise the rather sad betting experience offered by the large corps.

This would leave the corps to operate as a generic wagering firm, like a McDonalds, and encourage premium wagering to establish and to operate the top end of the market.

The other thing to keep in mind is that gross profits aligns the interests of the racing providers with the wagering operators, and as we are seeing in NSW since it has adopted gross profits, integrity and compliance have become worth investing in, and the code has just recently dealt with some of our long term 'troubles'.

Well, the Fixed Market on Sportsbet wasn't operating for Race 5 at Wenty Park last Friday until about fifteen minutes before the race, but they provide a good service along with the TAB most of the time... Cheers.

Ask yourself this Gavin. If you went to the track & the bookie wouldn't give you odds until 10 mins before the race, what would you think?

Fixed odds need to be up earlier at least for the sake of the owner/trainer who has to handle his/her dog.

Glen if your dog was in lets say race 4 you would need to be at the kennel block as soon as race 3 finishes. Even an onsite bookie wouldn't have the odds up that quick.

As an owner or Trainer if you want to back your dog you get someone else at the track I don't see the problem at all. lets be honest most races are about 20 odd mins apart so I cant see them doing things much quicker

Fixed Odds for the Saturday thoroughbred races in Sydney are available a day before, so Fixed Odds for Friday and Saturday Night at Wenty Park should at least be available from Race 1 for all of the races not just Race 1. I don't think Glenn is asking too much.