home - to The Greyhound-Database
Home  |  Dog-Search  |  Dogs ID  |  Races  |  Race Cards  |  Coursing  |  Tracks  |  Statistic  |  Testmating  |  Kennels  
 
   SHOP
Facebook
Login  |  Private Messages  |  add_race  |  add_coursing  |  add_dog  |  Membership  |  Advertising  | Ask the Vet  | Memorials    Help  print pedigree      
TV  |  Active-Sires  |  Sire-Pages  |  Stud Dogs  |  Which Sire?  |  Classifieds  |  Auctions  |  Videos  |  Adoption  |  Forum  |  About_us  |  Site Usage

Welcome to the Greyhound Knowledge Forum

   

The Greyhound-Data Forum has been created to act as a platform for greyhound enthusiasts to share information on this magnificent animal called a greyhound.

Greyhound-Data reserve the right to remove any post that is off topic, advertisements or opinions they consider to be offensive.

Please read the forum usage manual please note:

If you answer then please try to stay on topic. It's absolutely okay to answer in a broader scope but don't hijack posts by switching to something off topic.

In case you see an insulting post: DO NOT REPLY TO IT!
Use the report button to inform the moderators so that we can delete it.

Read more...

All TopicsFor SaleGD-WebsiteBreedingHealthRacingCoursingRetirementBettingTalkLogin to post
Do you have questions about breeding theories?
Or do you need tips on how to rear your pups?

Thank you all and a new question

James Rowe
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 3
Dogs 0 / Races 0

09 Dec 2020 06:58


 (1)
 (0)


First of all I would like to say thank you all for the great advice on my last question. Ok the new question is I want to do the greyhounds the proper way and the best way the first time with out upgrading, what is the best size for outdoor pens can a block of pens suit all stages from pups to older dogs. I have read the minimal standards as I live in Qld 2 hours west of Brisbane but I don't want minimal standards I want a good size pens for the dogs. is a pen 45m x 5m or 7m a good size or what do you all think please? I know 180cm or 6' height with 50x50 chain wire but what actual size pens do you all like? Thanks once again


Sandro Bechini
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 19488
Dogs 15268 / Races 1856

09 Dec 2020 08:09


 (1)
 (0)


Whatever State of Australia you are in, your welfare and Integrity Authority will have a Code Of Practice which will dictate the minimum size of your kennels and yards for greyhounds at their various stages of development


Daryl Barrett
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1739
Dogs 1 / Races 0

09 Dec 2020 19:12


 (1)
 (0)


G'day James, there are plenty of good people up your'e way mate,get in contact with Micheal & Selena Zammit,ask them if you could have a look at their set up.There are plenty of others you could ask as well,it will give you a visual perspective.

Cheers mate.


Paul Dicks
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 10281
Dogs 120 / Races 252

11 Dec 2020 02:33


 (1)
 (0)


You'll be investing tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in this venture. As suggested I'd be picking the brains of every top rearer and trainer in the industry for every piece of knowledge you can. Best to learn from others mistakes and successes. I've seen plenty of dollars wasted in what can be a real money pit.


Kevin Martin
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1183
Dogs 0 / Races 0

11 Dec 2020 03:45


 (3)
 (0)


Hi James just a question is it your intension to set up a commercial breeding or rearing property or just a family set up if you are breeding your own stock to race the size of the runs would be ok for pups to sleep in and rest with 300 acres you should set up a 3-5 acre paddock to run in at least twice a day morning and late afternoon if you would like to PM I can talk about some of the great set up I have seen.


David Brasch
Australia
(Team Member)
Posts 844
Dogs 2139 / Races 9672

12 Dec 2020 03:54


 (4)
 (0)


James

This is an article I wrote back in 2015 with Paul Wheeler about his rearing establishment near Young. It details how his pups are reared and the size of his "holding yards" and their galloping paddocks. You may be able to gather some info from this article from the one man who has made more champions in this country than any other.

Regards
David

ALLAN Wheeler was no doubt a man long before his time.
When Allan first came into greyhound racing, way back in the early 1960s, greyhound training had not emerged from the days of long walks morning and night and an occasional race once a week at the most.
Pup rearing was not really something most dog men thought much about.
Wheeler changed all that.
His operation soon became so big he physically didnt have the time to walk his dogs like all those legendary trainers he was setting out to defeat.
So Wheeler galloped them free galloping in the earliest of competition runs. Wheeler loved the results he got, the dogs loved it, and success came rapidly.
So rapidly, in fact, that his training methods were quickly copied.
As any scientist will tell you, it is all about specificity of training, which means train for what you are going to be doing. Cyclists cycle, swimmers swim, runners run.
Greyhounds are no different.
A greyhound expected to run 500m or more, should be able to cope with such lung-expanding work by running 500m or more.
Allen Wheeler adopted this theory to the rearing of his puppies. Big galloping paddocks became the norm and the Wheeler dogs thrived on it.
Paul Wheeler learned the lesson well.
Today, on the 3000 acres that are Wheeler Kennels at Murringo, the pup rearing facilities are immense and purpose built.
And it allows for what Wheeler himself calls a field environment.
By that he means every aspect of the rearing of greyhound pups at Wheeler Kennels is conducive to the ultimate aim of their careers, to race and win.
Pups are shifted into the rearing yards by the time they reach 12 weeks of age.
In each 40m x 100m holding yard is five or six pups, either littermates, or of similar age.
These pups are allowed out into, initially, a five-acre galloping paddock for at least two hours a day.
As the pup progresses in age and size, this two-hour a day paddock galloping is increased to a 10-acre paddock, and then a 20-acre paddock.
Having 3000 acres at Murringo allows Wheeler Kennels the space to cater for such large numbers of pups being reared and also the amount of room needed.
Each galloping paddock has a large dam.
The gallop paddocks are separated from the 40m x 100m holding yards by a Colourbond fence. Wheeler wants those pups in the galloping paddocks to gallop, not be distracted by those other pups still in their holding yards.
Wheeler has thought long and hard about this aspect of his rearing.
Obviously what worked for his father decades long ago, still works for Paul but it has been refined. Wheeler has a number of inventions that he has put into practice with success.
Each holding yard has a massive farm-shed like building, cement floor and very high ceiling but open at the front. It is big enough to give pups plenty of respite from the weather conditions of the time.
Each of these sheds is split into two, half for one holding yard, the other half for the one next door.
Inside this shed is a large metal frame filled during winter with straw as a bed during the colder months for the pups.
Wheeler is adamant that come spring this straw is removed to clear the areas of any possible flea problem. The straw is burned and the area is swept of any dust.
Obviously we get a lot of dust from the straw, specially with pups resting in it all the time, and playing in it, said Paul. We are fortunate we have never had a flea on the property at Murringo.
The metal pool-fencing that splits these sheds into two, is where all feeding is done and this is an ingenious idea from Wheeler.
Eight holes are cut into this pool fencing, big enough to allow the pups to put their heads through.
This is where they are fed.
Six pups in each holding yard but eight areas to access food. There is food available for every pup, 24 hours a day.
But even the simply art of feeding these pups is done with a Wheeler touch to it.
Above the eight food bowls is a long piece of light board. Each pup, to be able to feed, simply learns to push its head through the opening in the pool fencing, and easily lift the angled board.
The board sits at an angle almost identical to that of the front of a starting box. (See pictures)
Wheeler Kennels feeds a stew to every dog on the property in the morning. This consists of mostly beef, but to which is added chicken skin for added fat. Bones are fed every day. They are cut up and added to the bowl of stew.
In the afternoons, the stew bowls are collected and replaced with raw meat. If these are not finished overnight, they are then cooked up in the next mornings stew.
Greyhounds at Wheeler Kennels are NEVER fed milk with the exception of their own mothers valuable milk after birth and up to weaning.
I used to think milk was good for greyhounds, admitted Paul. Dad always bought fresh cows milk for the pups.
But it was legend Irish dog man Pat Dalton who convinced Paul milk is unnecessary for greyhounds.
It was Pat who told me greyhounds are lactose intolerant, he said. Pats brother had plenty of dairy cows right next door to his property in Ireland so Pat had plenty on hand to access if he wanted.
But he never uses it. At one time we had great trouble sourcing powdered milk. So we stopped feeding milk at all. And you know what, the dogs have gone better since.
Wheeler is the same amount vitamins being fed to pups.
The only vitamin we feed is standard DCP calcium powder, he said. The phosphorous in it is needed by dogs. But thats all we give our dogs.
He tells a story of many years ago discussing greyhound pup rearing with the late, great John McDonald famous for the Glider dogs. McDonald was famous for the quality of rearing he gave his pups.
At the time we were feeding iron supplements and multivitamins and minerals produced for greyhounds, said Paul. McDonald told me in no uncertain terms they didnt need any of that garbage.
We have not fed anything but DCP powder ever since.
For a property that is 3000 acres, and with more than 350 puppies on hand at any one time, one could think the Wheeler product gets little or no attention from 12 weeks to 14 months when they are brought into the breaking in kennels.
Not so, says Paul Wheeler.
All our pups are handled daily, he said.
Of course we have to have our staff actually bringing pups in and out of the galloping paddocks. It is their duty to spend time with all those pups when this is happening.
As my father once said, you can never hurt a dog with love and kindness.
Because Wheeler Kennels employs 12 full-time staff, and Sunday overtime rates are so costly, Sunday becomes a day of rest at Wheeler Kennels.
It is only the family who work on Sundays, said Paul. But we still have plenty to do with all the broodbitches, little pups and broodbitches.
But the bigger pups have the liberty of kibble day on Sunday.
By that Paul means, the pups are given an extra large feed on Saturday night and their kibble hopper is filled to the brim.
Wheeler has developed a contained that is in an L shape and in this is loaded five kilos of kibble on Saturday night. The kibble feeds down into the open section at the bottom of the L shape as pups eat the food.
Again, this area has its own starting box cover to encourage pups to push their head in and lift the starting box to eat the dry food.
We have self filling water troughs for the pups in the rearing yards, said Paul. They have plenty of food but we do not let them out into the galloping paddocks on Sundays.
They remain in their 40 metre by 100 metre holding yards.
Wheeler does NOT top up the kibble hopper again until the following Saturday night.
I dont really care if the pups eat kibble or not, he said. It is the red meat and bones that I want them to eat, not the dry food.
Each of the hoppers is filled with five kilos of dry food.
The dry food Wheeler uses is bread that has been baked into a dog food.
A lot of trainers feed bread instead of manufactured kibbles, he said. In fact, most of my trainers feed bread and semi-lean racing beef to the racing dogs. I have not seen a bag of complete dry food at any of their kennels.
Wheeler says everything about his rearing of puppies is aimed at producing a racing animal.
That is why we do everything in rearing in a group of six, he said. Have a look at all the old farmers who live around our area, the sheep farmers who rely on great working sheep dogs.
From a very early age, those sheep dog puppies are on the back of the truck heading out to work the sheep with the adult dogs.
They are not locked in a shed until they are 12 months old and then asked to be the perfect sheep dog. No, they are out learning their trade from a very early age.
It is not like we are building a house here.
If we make a mistake we can pull it down and fix it.
No, we have to get it right from a very early age and this is the method that we have found best suits rearing the perfect racing greyhound.
Take one look at the Wheeler runners on the racetrack any day of the week.
You will see determined race dogs, able to handle themselves in a field, competent box dogs, great chasers the complete package.
It comes from the perfect upbringing. Nothing is spared, no corner taken.
It is a recipe designed since the 1960s.
Fernando Bale is the ultimate example.

posts 6