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Rob Horne Australia (Verified User) Posts 522 Dogs 1 / Races 3 20 Apr 2015 09:21
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Paul Wheeler wrote:
Irish for pace
- US for strength
The above is correct !
The main reason is , in the US there track surfaces are deep sand , so even though they run about the same distance as us it is a lot tougher going. I have walked on a couple of their tracks that were prepared for racing and in normal lace up shoes and you sink in so far that the sand is going in your shoes
The difference in our track surfaces to the US track is if you were running two dogs up a beach , the Aussie dog would be running where the water is running on and off the sand and the US dog would be running 50 meters away from the water.
So they need a stronger dog to run the same distance as we do .
Most Irish tracks are very small running less the 500 meter for a race and their surfaces are similar to ours , so they need early pace.
Not saying one is better than the other just the way they do things in their countries
Paw
Thank you Paul - appreciate the detailed response.
John McAlister Australia (Verified User) Posts 6567 Dogs 1 / Races 0 20 Apr 2015 09:32
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Fernando Bale has a Sire tail line that goes back to Tell You Why who was by Rocket Jet he also carries Sandman in the Damsire line again Tell You Why by Racket Jet so with that type of Aussie sire influence from the earlier generations of American Lines are you truly breeding with all American ...not in my book you don't... With American tracks they sre prepared much different to ours they have the track surface covered with an inch of sand which means the dogs foot goes thru the surface aound 1 inch before it grips the track surface...out here they race on hard prepared surfaces for speed ...oh yes and injuries
Grant Thomas Australia (Verified User) Posts 11447 Dogs 64 / Races 20 20 Apr 2015 12:07
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John McAlister wrote:
Fernando Bale has a Sire tail line that goes back to Tell You Why who was by Rocket Jet he also carries Sandman in the Damsire line again Tell You Why by Racket Jet so with that type of Aussie sire influence from the earlier generations of American Lines are you truly breeding with all American ...not in my book you don't... With American tracks they sre prepared much different to ours they have the track surface covered with an inch of sand which means the dogs foot goes thru the surface aound 1 inch before it grips the track surface...out here they race on hard prepared surfaces for speed ...oh yes and injuries
PAW already posted about U.S.A. tracks...And I'll tell you why he's 'not' Ozzie...how far you want to go back...???
Michael Floyd Australia (Verified User) Posts 803 Dogs 0 / Races 0 23 Apr 2015 12:48
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29.04 tonight. 4.93 first split (.03 outside the record) 18.36 second split (breaks Black Magic Opal and Xylia Allen's record by 2.5 lengths)
Freak.
How good will next week's Bill Collins Memorial be!
Ray Morcomb Australia (Verified User) Posts 1331 Dogs 6 / Races 0 23 Apr 2015 13:16
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What a machine !
I'm calling old school match race against Dyna Villa
John McAlister Australia (Verified User) Posts 6567 Dogs 1 / Races 0 23 Apr 2015 15:32
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grant thomas wrote:
John McAlister wrote:
Fernando Bale has a Sire tail line that goes back to Tell You Why who was by Rocket Jet he also carries Sandman in the Damsire line again Tell You Why by Racket Jet so with that type of Aussie sire influence from the earlier generations of American Lines are you truly breeding with all American ...not in my book you don't... With American tracks they sre prepared much different to ours they have the track surface covered with an inch of sand which means the dogs foot goes thru the surface aound 1 inch before it grips the track surface...out here they race on hard prepared surfaces for speed ...oh yes and injuries
PAW already posted about U.S.A. tracks...And I'll tell you why he's 'not' Ozzie...how far you want to go back...???
Grant we go thru these silly arguments about stud dogs and future stud dogs all the time.Breedig is very complex and to pin point where an animal gets its speed from is far to hard to work out breeders from yesteryear looked no further than the 5th line on both sires and dams 3x3 or 3x4 then 4x4 even a 2x3 are the common crosses or generations they used.So the sireline to me and where it came from sways a lot of weight for me,I have seen PW use many dogs that trace back to Tell You Why by Rocket Jet and I have seen him double them up on many occasions with much success.I think by your example using Dickens that there is no direct Sirelines that go back to him in any country.It's like this fella Grant CLICK HERE how many Sires of today carry this blokes direct Sires blood and this then goes all the wayback to CLICK HERE then to here CLICK HERE then here CLICK HERE and here CLICK HERE and low and behold we are back to your bloke Dickens thru Brett Lee and so many others then you can delve more if you look thru this fella Grant CLICK HERE where could he lead us CLICK HERE whoops even the yanks got into the act.To me this is 1 of the reasons why PW has great success with his dogs CLICK HERE and to me was Newdown Heather then to Staff Officer Sireline 1 of his reasons here anyhow CLICK HERE I think both her Damsire and grand dam sireline could hold the key to him using this bloke his used now.Just another theory Grant but silly old me does believe in yesteryear and what happened back then crossed right could click with today.See I was told I was mad Grant when I done this for a final litter from Jo's girl CLICK HERE ...mate these are the keenest roughest toughest pups I have had ever and what they have inside them is what I was hoping for guts and they pass with flying colours and to be honest ..They can run a bit I think Now here's my take on the tracks Grant we raced on Grass tracks since inception and we had refined our lines to the point where speed and then strength was everything especially on grass and we had the tracks for speed then the conversion to sand and that's when some stud dogs struggled to throw the right dogs.I saw a bloke give a dog away and that dog went on to win quite a few races I think offhand around 18 and ran a lot of placings in good grades all but 2 or 3 of those wins were on Grass the same went for his placings I saw another dog that had a few wins on sand come out and run 26.1 on grass at Cessnock track sight unseen again grass then went back in distance and run middle 22.6 both quick times a couple of others that day from the same litter ran pretty quick yet find it touhg on sand I had a very fast dog up the straight that could ran 22.60 at Cessnock for 400m again very quick yet led all the way at Maitland winning by 7 lgths in a slow 22.90.Wheeler is breeding from fast sandtrack type bitches which carries a lot of clout in my book and good luck to him
Braden Finn Australia (Verified User) Posts 126 Dogs 15 / Races 0 23 Apr 2015 17:29
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Ray dyna villa wouldn't see which way he went imo this dog is a once in every 5-10 year sort of dog, he is out of this world how the fu@& he can run that quick to second split and still run home so good is ridiculous.
Ray Morcomb Australia (Verified User) Posts 1331 Dogs 6 / Races 0 23 Apr 2015 22:31
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Can't argue with you, I seen him run in the Egg final trackside and it was the closest run to Brett Lee I have seen.
Braden Finn wrote:
Ray dyna villa wouldn't see which way he went imo this dog is a once in every 5-10 year sort of dog, he is out of this world how the fu@& he can run that quick to second split and still run home so good is ridiculous.
Care to explain your breeding selections for this dog over his last three generations?
Eg. Why Awesome Assasin, then Primo Uno, then Kelso?
Thank you
Howard Moshinsky USA (Verified User) Posts 886 Dogs 3 / Races 0 24 Apr 2015 13:35
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would have loved to see frozen straws of fusuleers son AMERICAN DERBY CHAMP KELSOS GUARDIAN AVAILABLE-- just got lost when he went to DUBAI to chase gazelles
anything happening in dubai
Phil Hall Australia (Verified User) Posts 1320 Dogs 21 / Races 21 24 Apr 2015 17:12
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There is only 5 vials left of fernando bales sire left in australia so i have been told
Howard Moshinsky USA (Verified User) Posts 886 Dogs 3 / Races 0 24 Apr 2015 17:59
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phil john kelly usa hs one at sandowne clinic
am told paw has 2---might be one in taz
theres one in texas usa brian witt has it
Colin Matthews USA (Verified User) Posts 4702 Dogs 0 / Races 0 24 Apr 2015 18:10
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How many millions is he worth now ?
Phil Hall Australia (Verified User) Posts 1320 Dogs 21 / Races 21 24 Apr 2015 22:17
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howard moshinsky wrote:
phil john kelly usa hs one at sandowne clinic
am told paw has 2---might be one in taz
theres one in texas usa brian witt has it
if your mail is right, know of another 4
Steve O'Brien Australia (Verified User) Posts 183 Dogs 82 / Races 0 24 Apr 2015 23:22
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howard moshinsky wrote:
phil john kelly usa hs one at sandowne clinic
am told paw has 2---might be one in taz
theres one in texas usa brian witt has it
The one at Sandown Clinic had a $10,000 price tag in the NGF paper recently......
This is a very interesting thread. For those who may not understand the history of it, I agree with Mr. Wheeler. US dogs have only recently begun to come more in line with the greyhound populations in AUS and IRE/UK, as far as early pace is concerned. During most of the past century, our dogs were bred with the ideal in mind, being to win one of the many rich and prestigious "Derby" races that existed, particularly the much sought after American Derby. American bloodlines are steeped in the blood of American Derby winners, and their siblings and direct female family members. More than any other race, that event has shaped our greyhounds. Now these Derby races were all at least 660 yards around 6 turns. Combine that with our extremely deep, cuppy and tiring racing surfaces, and intelligent selectivity, and you can begin to understand why it is that our dogs tend to strength rather than mercurial pace, on a comparative basis, internationally.
Taking the long view, it is only recently that the 550 yard-4 turn race has supplanted the longer "derby distance" as the focus of most breeders here.
The breed shaping successes of Australian imports like Handy Andy, Just Andrew, Rocker Mac, Cleveland Lad, Tell You Why (and siblings) and Elsie Moss' offspring cannot be overstated, and if you go back a bit in their pedigrees, some of our greyhounds are almost as Autralian as some of your own.
Interestingly enough, no Australian sire here in the US has had significant impact, who did not carry Chief Havoc in the X chromosome passing position, since Tell You Why literally revolutionized our breed.
I would go so far as to suggest that it might be possible that the extreme differences in racing surface type, could actually tend to select, and then produce greyhounds that are as different from one another, as Thoroughbreds who are bred for turf racing are from those who are bred for dirt.
Steven Martin Australia (Verified User) Posts 7681 Dogs 180 / Races 66 25 Apr 2015 11:02
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Ray Morcomb wrote:
What a machine !
I'm calling old school match race against Dyna Villa
Add "DYNA DOUBLE ONE" to that list Ray & make it a threesome.
Mark Mihailovic Australia (Verified User) Posts 698 Dogs 1 / Races 0 02 May 2015 02:44
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Ray Morcomb wrote:
What a machine !
I'm calling old school match race against Dyna Villa
Genuine super star Ray, not sure I'd pay money to see villa vs fernando but I'd definitely buy front row tickets to a Fernando Vs Fabio match race. Would be great for the sport and would draw alot of good publicity i would imagine.
Howard Moshinsky USA (Verified User) Posts 886 Dogs 3 / Races 0 02 May 2015 10:47
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DR KENT LAW IN KANSAS HAS 7 MORE VIALS
Phil Hall Australia (Verified User) Posts 1320 Dogs 21 / Races 21 02 May 2015 11:00
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his sister just won ladies bracelet at wenty 29,80 elfen bale
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