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Fernando Balepage  << 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 >> 

Michael Floyd
Australia
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Posts 803
Dogs 0 / Races 0

23 Dec 2015 06:50


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Ha ha - I wouldn't even to pretend to know much about breeding!


James Schierny
Australia
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Posts 784
Dogs 8 / Races 21

23 Dec 2015 07:21


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Fernando Bale this race dog was a freak
certainly just what was needed for greyhound
racing this year with everything else making
the headlines for all the wrong reasons.

Fernando Bale the stud dog is a whole other story.

Here is an interesting write up by david brasch
on Fernando Bale, anyone thinking of using him will
find this of interest.

HOW the world can change!
What appears just five minutes ago when My Bro Fabio was Australia's super sprinter, now the name on everyone's lips is Fernando Bale.
Two minutes before that it was Dyna Villa and before that it was Keybow.
That is the want of greyhound racing, especially sprinters. A new superstar can come along every few months to change the entire face of racing.
I'm seeing and hearing talk by broodbitch owners of their want, need, even desperation, to use Fernando Bale (Kelsos Fusileer-Chloe Allen by Primo Uno) at stud.
It is a natural move considering the dog is a superstar galloper already the winner of the Egg and National Derby and the second fastest ever around Sandown.
He looks to have a mortgage on the Group 1 Harrison-Dawson at Sandown this week.
It's only natural broodbitch owners would warm to him some of them are even having a "hot flush" about the possibility.
So, can Fernando make it at stud?
Let's dissect him, his pedigree, and look at his chances of becoming a champion sire.
So, where do we start?
Fernando is by the US stud dog Kelsos Fusileer a son of the great US stud dog Gable Dodge and the Irish bitch Lassinagh Silky.
Gable Dodge is a direct descendant of legend Downing. His line has never really been an influence in Australia but lack of opportunities may have accounted for much of that.
Lassinagh Silky is by Arrigle Buddy whose greatest claim to fame is that he sired No Can Waltz a champion in Germany.
Yes I too was unaware greyhound racing even existed in Germany.
But Arrigle Buddy is hugely in-bred to the famous broodbitch Skipping Chick which to a degree explains why he has been successful as a broodbitch sire.
Lassinagh Silky's mother Last Boher is a litter sister to Irish Derby and Champion Stakes winner Ardfert Mick.
Way back in the early 1990s, I inspected Ardfert Mick at his trainer Matt O'Donnell's property in Ireland.
I found him the most timid greyhound I have ever come into contact with, and by that time he was already at stud.
The daughters of Lassinagh Silky have produced moderately at best. Southland Grade AA winner Kelsos Blackburn is the best.
On the racetrack, Kelsos Fusileer was stakes class but not a stakes winner.
I asked a good friend, based in Boston, who has been in greyhound racing all his life for his thoughts on Kelsos Fusileer.
His exact reply is:
"Kelsos Fusileer won 10 AA's at Wheeling Downs when he ran there back in 2005-06. At one stage he rattled off three in a row which by any standard is a good thing. Wheeling Downs is a noted speed track and he did come from behind to win most of his races.
"He was a good racer at Wheeling Downs but was he as good as Rhythmless and Greys Calibrator who also ran there I don't think so.
"As a stud dog he has produced some solid dogs over here but nothing outstanding. He wasn't a dog the breeders were rushing to breed to. My honest opinion of him was he was a good dog but not a great one.
"Now on the other hand you see what he produced in Fernando Bale, a dog better than himself, when mixed up with your Australian blood."
So there you have it.
My own research on Kelsos Fusileer shows Fernando Bale is a standout, by a long, long way, in his stud career.
So, Kelsos Fusileer was a top grade dog but not a star. At stud he has been handy at best (until Fernando). His lines have a smattering a good and some very good, but lots of moderate.
So to Fernando's damline.
Dam, Chloe Allen (Primo Uno-Rosemary Bale) is from a great Wheeler family.
Chloe Allen was second in the SA Oaks and a multiple city winner. Her first two litters, to Dyna Lachlan and Cosmic Chief, are moderate and that's giving them a very big wrap.
But to Kelsos Fusileer she has also produced Group winner Elfen Bale.
Chloe Allen carries two very important Irish crosses in her pedigree, that of Moral Standards and Silver Ball and I have already written of the link to Kelsos Fusileer's dam Lassinagh Silky with that pair.
Chloe Allen is a half sister to champion stayer Jarvis Bale who didn't get an early go at stud with the exception of Paul Wheeler's own bitches.
He has sired Allen Deed the winner of the Adelaide Cup and track record holder at The Meadows at 29.37.
He is a multiple Group finalist but has already blotted his name with an indiscretion.
Chloe's second dam Kobie Bale is a sister to Carlton Bale and Hahn Bale who, after quality race careers in Australia, went to Ireland-England to stud.
Carlton Bale was handy, Hahn Bale got much less opportunity and was poor.
Chloe Allen's sire Primo Uno was a top class sire. His sons at stud are headed by the lightly used, but highly successful Turanza Bale (an in-bred and balanced pedigree).
Other sons of Primo Uno to get a go at stud include Train A Journey, Enry Walt, On Coin, Stagger, Run The Risk and Surgeon.
Chloe's dam is by Awesome Assassin and he has proved himself at stud. His son Collision is champion sire.
Chloe's second dam is a daughter of Head Honcho, a legend and huge source of chase. Chloe is in-bred and balanced to Head Honcho's sire Walkabout Sid (the recipe for success with Primo Uno).
So, there we have it!
Fernando Bale is the son of a good race dog but a fair sire (until the emergence of Fernando himself).
Dam Chloe Allen was a good race bitch, and a half sister to a champion who has sired a super sprinter.
So what can Fernando hang his hat on to become a success at stud?
He is a super fast sprinter able to run track record (or near track record) times. That is a MAJOR plus in his chances.
He's a multiple Group 1 winner and hasn't finished yet. He's just a baby and the next six months on the racetrack will allow him to become a great.
Those are pretty big plusses in his favour as a potential stud dog. It will attract him to broodbitches owners for certain.
The downside?
He is an example of great diversity in his pedigree US, Irish and Aussie bloodlines.
The great stud dogs of Australia in the past few decades, the breed shapers, have all been intensely in-bred Collision, Bombastic Shiraz, Where's Pedro, Hallucinate, Surf Lorian etc, way back to the legend of them all Temlee.
Such intensity of blood allows them to be pre-potent and generally dominate the broodbitches they mate.
Those not so intensely in-bred must rely on pedigrees being put together to greatly suit them.
And that is not always done by broodbitch owners who look more to "flavor of the month" than what best suits their bitch.
Fernando Bale will get his chance at stud. I, for one, will watch him closely and "hope" such a great race dog lives up to his racetrack deeds when he retires.
My thoughts on him are that he MUST mate bitches with Irish bloodlines, MUST reinforce the Wheeler damline, MUST double Head Honcho (ideally via Go Wild Teddy), and is a natural for daughters of Collision.



Michael Bowerman
Australia
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Posts 4614
Dogs 11 / Races 0

23 Dec 2015 07:31


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james i had dout about him at stud but the champion temlee was a champion on the track and at stud, so i change my mine i think fernando bale will produce like temmlee,


Rob Horne
Australia
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Posts 522
Dogs 1 / Races 3

08 Apr 2016 10:04


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EXTERNAL LINK
Does this create a question in using Fernando?


Phil Hall
Australia
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Posts 1320
Dogs 21 / Races 21

08 Apr 2016 10:23


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Rob Horne wrote:

EXTERNAL LINK
Does this create a question in using Fernando?

would if you used sire in link


Matt Griffiths
Australia
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Posts 1954
Dogs 56 / Races 2

08 Apr 2016 10:28


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doesn't mean anything I have seen the hardest and worst chasers come out of the same rearing yard


Matt Griffiths
Australia
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Posts 1954
Dogs 56 / Races 2

08 Apr 2016 10:31


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but I would never use Fernando, timing of his retirement seems to convenient



Johnathon Campbell
Australia
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Posts 4635
Dogs 5 / Races 2

08 Apr 2016 10:59


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Im not knocking the dog but I do not like his pedigree as much as some other dogs at stud. He was a freak racer yes.
Id go as far to say he will not produce anything near as good as himself. His sire was not a great dog at stud minus Fernando and people were paying top dollar for his last vials and wanting a nice fee for the pups whilst riding the bandwagon.
Id use Dyna Double One because he holds a more solid profile across the board but that is only my opinion.


Phil Hall
Australia
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Posts 1320
Dogs 21 / Races 21

08 Apr 2016 11:02


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guess he should have won 2 million



Johnathon Campbell
Australia
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Posts 4635
Dogs 5 / Races 2

08 Apr 2016 11:07


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phil hall wrote:

guess he should have won 2 million

Wouldn't change my above comments.
Great race dog.
His sire wasn't terribly good at stud.
Those things cannot change even if he had won 10 million unfortunately.


Phil Hall
Australia
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Posts 1320
Dogs 21 / Races 21

08 Apr 2016 12:13


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doesn't mean he wont be any good either if his sire wasn't as good at stud, I'm sure he will have his chance, no one will never really know for a few years yet



Johnathon Campbell
Australia
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Posts 4635
Dogs 5 / Races 2

08 Apr 2016 12:34


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phil hall wrote:

doesn't mean he wont be any good either if his sire wasn't as good at stud, I'm sure he will have his chance, no one will never really know for a few years yet

That's true mate.


Wade Gallagher
Australia
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Posts 372
Dogs 117 / Races 0

08 Apr 2016 21:15


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Johnathon campbell wrote:

phil hall wrote:

guess he should have won 2 million

Wouldn't change my above comments.
Great race dog.
His sire wasn't terribly good at stud.
Those things cannot change even if he had won 10 million unfortunately.

I'm not old enough to know for sure but on the face of it you could say that the sire of Temlee & the sire of Brother Fox were only average sires without the champions just mentioned & they went on to be legendary sires. I stand to be corrected though.

Time will tell with Fernando Bale.


Sandro Bechini
Australia
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Posts 19488
Dogs 15268 / Races 1856

08 Apr 2016 21:44


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Hi Wade

Little Blade the sire of Brother Fox was essentially a one turn speed dog. He was about 35kg and a very tall leggy dog with an angular frame. He really wasnt built for two turn tracks the way they were designed back then.

He only races sparingly but when he raced there weren't many one turn dogs who could beat him at Harold park.

A comparative dog these days may be a dog like El grand Senor



Johnathon Campbell
Australia
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Posts 4635
Dogs 5 / Races 2

08 Apr 2016 21:52


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If people want to grab a beer at lunch time and read the Bekim Bale thread from page one to the end and its a simular argument as is many sire topics. We have people saying (please read) he cannot fail and the next champion sire 'is recieving too many top bitches in droves to not fail' fast forward to today and I'd say he's near on guaranted to throw strength into his pups but he has his problems as a sire as we all know. I'd say that Bekim could still throw a faster pup then Fernando but again that's my opinion.
People should take the time to read Barcia Bales thread and a similar argument. He was booked out in an extreme way and he's been a good sire but huge amounts of pups to show what he has a Brett Lee as some people were predicting? I'd say not.
I could pull a list of absolute champion race horses out of my head that failed at stud take Secritariat the first horse to win 1 million dollars (a champion) a horse no one had seen anything like before (sounds familiar) ordinary at stud but his daughters did carry on better as brood mares and I see Fernando in the same light.
Yes I could be wrong.
One thing I couldn't believe was people scrambling to buy Kelso Fuisiler straws at big prices because on one dog ignoring every bit of evidence before that and then asking silly prices for a pup off the back of again one dog.
There were other imported sires leaps and bounds better at stud then KF but ignored it makes me wonder.


Martin Roper
USA
(Team Member)
Posts 1593
Dogs 7212 / Races 10370

08 Apr 2016 22:33


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Johnathon campbell wrote:
His sire wasn't terribly good at stud.

Everything you know about American breeding couldn't fill a thimble. Kelsos Fusileer had one of the top strike rates of any U.S. sire in recent memory. Because he was not a major stake winner, he was not highly bred at first. By the time people realized his pups could run, it was too late to amass large numbers of pups. Those who did use him were handsomely rewarded.

From the 1649 offspring 391 (24%) did run in major/feature races = 3453.5 points"
EXTERNAL LINK

By comparison, Kiowa Sweet Trey is at 14%, Kiowa Mon Manny 16%, Gable Dodge 15%, Flying Penske 17%, etc.



Johnathon Campbell
Australia
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Posts 4635
Dogs 5 / Races 2

09 Apr 2016 00:08


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Martin Roper wrote:

Johnathon campbell wrote:
His sire wasn't terribly good at stud.

Everything you know about American breeding couldn't fill a thimble. Kelsos Fusileer had one of the top strike rates of any U.S. sire in recent memory. Because he was not a major stake winner, he was not highly bred at first. By the time people realized his pups could run, it was too late to amass large numbers of pups. Those who did use him were handsomely rewarded.

From the 1649 offspring 391 (24%) did run in major/feature races = 3453.5 points"
EXTERNAL LINK

By comparison, Kiowa Sweet Trey is at 14%, Kiowa Mon Manny 16%, Gable Dodge 15%, Flying Penske 17%, etc.

Is that right Martin.
How's his Australian stats?
A lot of good sires in Ireland that weren't any good in Australia as for American sires like Kelso Fussiler.
If you think american stats can be used for australian breeding industry then you knowledge is very limited.




Johnathon Campbell
Australia
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Posts 4635
Dogs 5 / Races 2

09 Apr 2016 00:15


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Martin I took this from an article from one of if not the best Pedigree analyst in Australia and it's interesting that such a highly sort after and well respected person should as you would say along the lines as 'as much knowledge as a thimble' if you wish I could forward you on the entire article?

My own research on Kelsos Fusileer shows Fernando Bale is a standout, by a long, long way, in his stud career.
So, Kelsos Fusileer was a top grade dog but not a star. At stud he has been handy at best (until Fernando). His lines have a smattering a good and some very good, but lots of moderate.
So to Fernando's damline.
Dam, Chloe Allen (Primo Uno-Rosemary Bale) is from a great Wheeler family.



Sandro Bechini
Australia
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Posts 19488
Dogs 15268 / Races 1856

09 Apr 2016 00:22


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Fernando Bale has an amazing depth to his pedigree

His whole litter performed at city level over 500m+

Two others of his litter, Elfen Bale and Kenju Bale made Group 1 finals. Elfen won the Group 2 Ladies Bracelet at Wentworth Park

Gazer Bale and Linco Bale are winners in Victoria metro over 600m & 700m

He comes from the same branch of PAW's line that produced the good stayer and underrated sire Jarvis Bale

His dam Chloe Allen was a Group 3 class bitch, two of her litter mates reached similar standards

The Gable Dodge sire line is known for producing hard front running types i.e. One Tree Hill via Gable La Fourche

They are very suitable to Australian conditions

I think he has the credentials to make it as a leading stud dog





Johnathon Campbell
Australia
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Posts 4635
Dogs 5 / Races 2

09 Apr 2016 01:02


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Sandro Bechini wrote:

Fernando Bale has an amazing depth to his pedigree

His whole litter performed at city level over 500m+

Two others of his litter, Elfen Bale and Kenju Bale made Group 1 finals. Elfen won the Group 2 Ladies Bracelet at Wentworth Park

Gazer Bale and Linco Bale are winners in Victoria metro over 600m & 700m

He comes from the same branch of PAW's line that produced the good stayer and underrated sire Jarvis Bale

His dam Chloe Allen was a Group 3 class bitch, two of her litter mates reached similar standards

The Gable Dodge sire line is known for producing hard front running types i.e. One Tree Hill via Gable La Fourche

They are very suitable to Australian conditions

I think he has the credentials to make it as a leading stud dog

I agree Sandro He has a chance like other dogs before him as you touched on his mother is a sister to Javis Bale and a Grp bitch herself that's somthing to take into account and he will get good bitches.



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