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Major issues affecting racing in NSW page  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 >> 

James Saunders
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 4644
Dogs 3 / Races 3

06 May 2016 05:18


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Both marks are right..country racing in new south is very very important because of the history and expanse of the state but the model we have is not going to allow the sport to flourish going forward but im not sure the powers to be have the answers either.If they do get it right it will more likely be thru chance and that was all.


Mark Donohue
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 3236
Dogs 6 / Races 0

09 May 2016 20:39


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There are good increases in place prize money for TAB meetings. Of course there are about 100 fewer non-TAB race meetings to get it. Choke, choke.
.
Didn't it come from the 1.5 million dollar increase to prize money from unknown location (most probably from TAB distribution) ?


Chris Carl
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 778
Dogs 20 / Races 0

09 May 2016 21:44


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Sandro Bechini wrote:

Hi Pauline

Maybe not, but the trend over the last 30 years seems to be the shorter the distance the better

Not that I agree with it, but that seems to be the way the game is heading

The argument from GRNSW is to redistribute the funds away from the pinnacle and redistribute amongst the placegetter, so more people in the game can get a piece of the pie.

Let's face it, 90% of dogs born are not city dogs.

Sure, I have no problem in rewarding better class dogs with higher prizemoney but it's not equitable for the industry as a whole for 10% of dogs born to get the bulk of the prizemoney.

It's that kind of elitism that drives the wastage of greyhounds in this industry.

A fairer distribution of prizemoney along all grades is what was required.

Why do we need a $250k first prize for the Easter Egg?

If it was $150k, do you think no one will come to Wenty to try and win it?

Why does a $11k maiden final in NSW recently have $10k to the winner and 2nd got $500, beaten half a length.

The distribution of 65%, 25% and 10% is fair, but in my view 1st place should have been cut to 60% and third place increased to 15%

I applaud the redistribution of prizemoney, it will keep more dogs in play for longer and it will provides more of those who who invest in the sport with opportunity to to get a few quid back from a lower class dog, and increase the incentive to try again.

The bigger challenge is to fix up the grading system which at the moment doesn't help young dogs trying to find their feet in their racing career.

Sandro I think everyone agrees 2nd and 3rd prizemoney is poor. but I dont think many would agree it should go up at the expense of 1st.
Bare in mind 2nd and 3rd do not go up in grade.
The big races are the ones that stimulate breeding and buying. ( we do a poor job of showcasing them)
Would you pay Hodkinson the same as Thurston. Who are they going to watch?
Like Socialism sounds good in theory.....
Your analogy about the maiden winner getting 11k and the 2nd dog $500 is not unlike the lotto winner getting 21 million and the bloke with 5 and the supplementary getting 12k.
I bet he goes in it next week.
Sadly the changes will accelerate the flow of our better dogs to Victoria. Already our better stayers are being forced into 500 and 600 metres races.
I breed 3 or 4 litters a year and I know what Im trying to get.And there may only be 1 Easter Egg a year, but somebody has to win it.
If you took $100,000-00 off the Easter Egg Prize that would equate to about $10-00 off every tab A B and C race winner.
Most pay that to go in the jackpot dog draw




James Saunders
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 4644
Dogs 3 / Races 3

09 May 2016 23:00


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I think you will find the new age of heavily regulated racing will force out the also rans and corner cutters those with sub par systems in place won't compete.whether that is there end goal who knows but realistically those that are over breeding haven't been pulled into line which makes me think eradicating the small participant suits them fine.


Sandro Bechini
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 19488
Dogs 15268 / Races 1856

09 May 2016 23:10


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 (0)


Sorry Chris

I agree with you on many things, but I don't agree that starving 90% of participants of prizemoney and creating an elitist structure of prizemoney is actually going to grow the sport

Don't look at Victoria as an example. It's a false gold in many ways. You need an exceptional pup to go down there and be competitive.

Think what will happen when everyone sends their good dogs down there?

The races just get harder to win.

At the moment down there you need almost need a Group dog to compete in their 5th grade races at tracks like Shepparton etc

Demon Bale won a 5th grade there last night. The rest of them were no where near his grade.

What happens to all the other dogs and their prizemoney earning capacity.

The class of SA, TAS and WA racing has improved over the last few years because dogs that were otherwise competitive are being pushed out of Victoria.

The reason that few of them come back to NSW is because we have the worst grading system in the country.

There is this underlying old school theme that believes in burning 10 dogs to get one 1 decent one.

Well that thinking has to change.

The game has changed, and all the dogs and the participants investing their time and money into the sport need to be looked after.

Those other 9 dogs that were otherwise burned and treated as wastage, now need to find a place to have a meaningful racing career that at least gives their owners a chance to recoup their investment to reinvest and get their dream dog.

They also need to be looked after in retirement.

Not just the top 10%.

I am a big believer that if you share the pot more equitably then the incentive for participants to stay in the game will improve.

The sport could actually grow and younger people could be provided with a career path to train dogs professionally.

That is the only way the sport can maintain any traction.

If you keep burning 90% of participants with rubbish prizemoney you are actually accelerating the downward spiral of the sport.

Elitism leads to wastage of animals on a much larger scale, which we hope we have learned is now not acceptable in this society.

Elitism leads to unfair prizemoney allocations that disincentives people to stay in the sport.

I am sure you would have loved being beaten half a length in that maiden final, breaking 30 seconds and collecting only $500 whilst the winner collects a cool $10k

There is no equity in that.

As much as you don't like it, bread and butter prizemoney earned regularly keeps the people in the industry in play.

Waiting 10 years to get a Group dog and pouring funds into a bottomless pit to do so, doesn't.

As they say in the classics, Money Talks, B/S walks.



Mark Schlegel
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 3168
Dogs 9 / Races 5

09 May 2016 23:24


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chris carl wrote:

Sandro I think everyone agrees 2nd and 3rd prizemoney is poor. but I dont think many would agree it should go up at the expense of 1st.
Bare in mind 2nd and 3rd do not go up in grade.
The big races are the ones that stimulate breeding and buying. ( we do a poor job of showcasing them)
Would you pay Hodkinson the same as Thurston. Who are they going to watch?
Like Socialism sounds good in theory.....
Your analogy about the maiden winner getting 11k and the 2nd dog $500 is not unlike the lotto winner getting 21 million and the bloke with 5 and the supplementary getting 12k.
I bet he goes in it next week.
Sadly the changes will accelerate the flow of our better dogs to Victoria. Already our better stayers are being forced into 500 and 600 metres races.
I breed 3 or 4 litters a year and I know what Im trying to get.And there may only be 1 Easter Egg a year, but somebody has to win it.
If you took $100,000-00 off the Easter Egg Prize that would equate to about $10-00 off every tab A B and C race winner.
Most pay that to go in the jackpot dog draw


Turnover says you are WRONG.

The holds on Group and City races are NOWHERE near high enough to justify the prizemoney they receive.
ALL Group races and City races are SUBSIDISED by wagering on lower grade races. None of them pay their own way!

20 years ago the big Group races paid $100,000 to the winner and the industry was thriving, breeding was stronger and we had an abundance of trainers.
How has a >400% increase in prizemoney for the Egg and Melb/Aust Cup benefited anyone??? The vast majority of participants don't breed or buy because of how much the Group races pay.......most are just in it for a bit of fun and to hopefully win a few races!

A prizemoney redistribution is NOTHING like Socialism! Under Socialism, money is taken from those that EARN it and given to those that DON'T.
That's pretty much what we have already......with money taken from Tier 2 and Tier 3 turnover to pay for Group and City prizemoney (and also, in the case of NSW, for non-TAB races).

If prizemoney was actually allocated to those races (and racers) that created the turnover (i.e. those that EARNED it), then Group races would pay less than 100k to the winner, City races about 5k, Tier 2 about 4k and Tier 3 about 3k.

There's something seriously wrong when the 10% of dogs that are City or Group class are getting rich off the backs and the turnover of the other 90% of dogs!



Phil Hall
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1320
Dogs 21 / Races 21

09 May 2016 23:32


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Sandro Bechini wrote:

Sorry Chris

I agree with you on many things, but I don't agree that starving 90% of participants of prizemoney and creating an elitist structure of prizemoney is actually going to grow the sport

Don't look at Victoria as an example. It's a false gold in many ways. You need an exceptional pup to go down there and be competitive.

Think what will happen when everyone sends their good dogs down there?

The races just get harder to win.

At the moment down there you need almost need a Group dog to compete in their 5th grade races at tracks like Shepparton etc

Demon Bale won a 5th grade there last night. The rest of them were no where near his grade.

What happens to all the other dogs and their prizemoney earning capacity.

The class of SA, TAS and WA racing has improved over the last few years because dogs that were otherwise competitive are being pushed out of Victoria.

The reason that few of them come back to NSW is because we have the worst grading system in the country.

There is this underlying old school theme that believes in burning 10 dogs to get one 1 decent one.

Well that thinking has to change.

The game has changed, and all the dogs and the participants investing their time and money into the sport need to be looked after.

Those other 9 dogs that were otherwise burned and treated as wastage, now need to find a place to have a meaningful racing career that at least gives their owners a chance to recoup their investment to reinvest and get their dream dog.

They also need to be looked after in retirement.

Not just the top 10%.

I am a big believer that if you share the pot more equitably then the incentive for participants to stay in the game will improve.

The sport could actually grow and younger people could be provided with a career path to train dogs professionally.

That is the only way the sport can maintain any traction.

If you keep burning 90% of participants with rubbish prizemoney you are actually accelerating the downward spiral of the sport.

Elitism leads to wastage of animals on a much larger scale, which we hope we have learned is now not acceptable in this society.

Elitism leads to unfair prizemoney allocations that disincentives people to stay in the sport.

I am sure you would have loved being beaten half a length in that maiden final, breaking 30 seconds and collecting only $500 whilst the winner collects a cool $10k

There is no equity in that.

As much as you don't like it, bread and butter prizemoney earned regularly keeps the people in the industry in play.

Waiting 10 years to get a Group dog and pouring funds into a bottomless pit to do so, doesn't.

As they say in the classics, Money Talks, B/S walks.

your not only speaking for yourself sandro, bet 99% participants feel the same! ridiculous the difference in prizemoney 1st 2nd in the example wrote. I race dogs in Melbourne and you are spot on


Tom Richards
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1003
Dogs 0 / Races 0

10 May 2016 04:52


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what % of group racing prize money actually stays in NSW at the present?

Does the current allocation of prize money support the NSW owner/trainers?


James Saunders
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 4644
Dogs 3 / Races 3

10 May 2016 05:02


 (0)
 (0)


Its supports new south breeders via 50% tax from Vic trainers. Lol



Gary Smith
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 3319
Dogs 6 / Races 14

10 May 2016 21:48


 (0)
 (0)


Sandro Bechini wrote:

Sorry Chris

I agree with you on many things, but I don't agree that starving 90% of participants of prizemoney and creating an elitist structure of prizemoney is actually going to grow the sport

Don't look at Victoria as an example. It's a false gold in many ways. You need an exceptional pup to go down there and be competitive.

Think what will happen when everyone sends their good dogs down there?

The races just get harder to win.

At the moment down there you need almost need a Group dog to compete in their 5th grade races at tracks like Shepparton etc

Demon Bale won a 5th grade there last night. The rest of them were no where near his grade.

What happens to all the other dogs and their prizemoney earning capacity.

The class of SA, TAS and WA racing has improved over the last few years because dogs that were otherwise competitive are being pushed out of Victoria.

The reason that few of them come back to NSW is because we have the worst grading system in the country.

There is this underlying old school theme that believes in burning 10 dogs to get one 1 decent one.

Well that thinking has to change.

The game has changed, and all the dogs and the participants investing their time and money into the sport need to be looked after.

Those other 9 dogs that were otherwise burned and treated as wastage, now need to find a place to have a meaningful racing career that at least gives their owners a chance to recoup their investment to reinvest and get their dream dog.

They also need to be looked after in retirement.

Not just the top 10%.

I am a big believer that if you share the pot more equitably then the incentive for participants to stay in the game will improve.

The sport could actually grow and younger people could be provided with a career path to train dogs professionally.

That is the only way the sport can maintain any traction.

If you keep burning 90% of participants with rubbish prizemoney you are actually accelerating the downward spiral of the sport.

Elitism leads to wastage of animals on a much larger scale, which we hope we have learned is now not acceptable in this society.

Elitism leads to unfair prizemoney allocations that disincentives people to stay in the sport.

I am sure you would have loved being beaten half a length in that maiden final, breaking 30 seconds and collecting only $500 whilst the winner collects a cool $10k

There is no equity in that.

As much as you don't like it, bread and butter prizemoney earned regularly keeps the people in the industry in play.

Waiting 10 years to get a Group dog and pouring funds into a bottomless pit to do so, doesn't.

As they say in the classics, Money Talks, B/S walks.

Totally agree


Mark Donohue
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 3236
Dogs 6 / Races 0

17 May 2016 02:48


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A respected participant with administrative duties sent all information about reduction of Non-TAB meetings to the local member, to the CEO of GRNSW and other persons with almost no result. He thought that they would have been staggered by the figures to say very the least. Well, maybe not the CEO.
.
A few years ago, the GRNSW's previous CEO and Assistant CEO told his Association that they needed to save a million dollars, so they cut the Non-TAB meetings by over a hundred meetings, two weeks later it appeared that all of that money was injected into TAB racing. Now, they have cut Non-TAB meetings down to 261 meetings and upgraded TAB prize money. He wonders if the Non-TAB money is once again going to TAB.

Where is the transparency that we hear so much about ? It seems that they are in the process of massively reducing a great industry and there are doubts it will be the same again.
.
Something different, I have now been told that the decision about these TAB C meetings will not be made until the end of May. I wonder what GRNSW is up to ? What is going on ? Is it waiting for the Special Commission of Enquiry's Recommendations ?
.
There is a large amount of spending at GRNSW. We questioned it when the previous CEO was doing it so, we can only look at the Annual Report and see where it has been spent. I wonder what the Government will do about the $335 million they get out of greyhound racing without lifting a finger, if they close it down? What about all of the small businesses that will be affected from the downturn ? Most probably they'll just pack-up and never return.




Mark Donohue
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 3236
Dogs 6 / Races 0

27 Jun 2016 01:58


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A few hours ago on 2KY I heard two Ads in succession about prize money increases for the thoroughbreds at country n provincial tracks as of 1st July, as well as it never been a better time to breed with one's mare. Go the LNP in NSW ! You're doing a great job.


Sandro Bechini
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 19488
Dogs 15268 / Races 1856

27 Jun 2016 01:58


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More dog food


Joe Baldacchino
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 561
Dogs 6 / Races 2

27 Jun 2016 07:50


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The GG's are a protected species in the Government's eyes and can do no wrong despite the blatant doping that was going on at the same time as the live baiting in the dogs was exposed.

The spotlight wasn't turned on to the 'wastage' issue in the Thoroughbred world, as it was with the doggies, but they created a 'distraction' with the whip issue, which is nothing but a joke and I hear that there is talk that the those rules may soon be consigned to the scrap heap anyway.

As it turned out, the focus on the 'wastage' issue with the dogs was nothing but a stunt to enable monies made by greyhound wagering to be stolen from the industry and used to inflate thoroughbred racing prizemoney, which is coming to pass on 1 July, 2016.

Wasn't Troy Grant, the Racing Minister, due to make a decision on extra funding to the Greyhound Industry as a result of the reduced tax take out once the Commission of Inquiry's report was handed down?

Can anyone tell me why the report has not yet been made public despite the 16 June, 2016 deadline has now lapsed?


Mark Donohue
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 3236
Dogs 6 / Races 0

29 Jun 2016 00:16


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The commissioner is seeking legal advice on releasing all of the Special Enquiry Report hence the delay. The report is four volumes thick n Mr Troy Grant had previously asked the commissioner not to leave any stone unturned. Mr Grant further mentioned greater increases in prize money to T'Breds over the next couple of years and how good harness racing is going.


Chris van Vegchel
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 443
Dogs 3 / Races 0

29 Jun 2016 00:52


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EXTERNAL LINK
Any thoughts on the new prizemoney structure as of 01JULY16 and any potential impacts on race club programming and flow of nominations?



Jack Gatty
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2055
Dogs 1 / Races 0

29 Jun 2016 03:35


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Mark Donohue wrote:

The commissioner is seeking legal advice on releasing all of the Special Enquiry Report hence the delay. The report is four volumes thick n Mr Troy Grant had previously asked the commissioner not to leave any stone unturned. Mr Grant further mentioned greater increases in prize money to T'Breds over the next couple of years and how good harness racing is going.

LOL - how good harness are doing surviving on the dogs turnover. It's blatant thievery.



Grant Dunphy
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 743
Dogs 4 / Races 1

29 Jun 2016 05:24


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Maybe ICAC could look into non disclosure of thorougbred interests amoungst Ministers instrumental in greyhound earnt revenue being handed over to the thoroughbreds-a-la-Eddie O'bead non disclosures.


Mark Donohue
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 3236
Dogs 6 / Races 0

29 Jun 2016 08:45


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 (0)


Chris van Vegchel wrote:

EXTERNAL LINK
Any thoughts on the new prizemoney structure as of 01JULY16 and any potential impacts on race club programming and flow of nominations?

.
Hi Chris,
I'm busy atm - to look at the pros and cons, and there has been commentary on the proposal re: prize money changes, but not as it will stand on Friday. Any thoughts ?


Chris van Vegchel
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 443
Dogs 3 / Races 0

29 Jun 2016 10:37


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G'day Mark,
My main concern is the difference between short and sprint. IMO a 500m dog doesn't deserve $600 more at TAB B level than a 400m dog. This may lead to 400m dogs being alienated as trainers nominate more for 500m races chasing the extra dollars meaning clubs programming less 400m races and making it even harder to get starts.
Cheers
Chris.

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