Yep he gets a lot of winners, most of them up to 450m

Reminds me a lot of El Grand Senor pups

They chase well, box well, course pretty truly but lack a bit of stamina at the end of 520m

Still a reasonable option for a bitch who was strong late to inject early pace IMHO

This will no doubt bring plenty of attack, but just how well is the KC and All sire line doing? Sure, it gets dogs with big motors, but how many are making and winning the big G1s? Worldwide, Pat C Sabbath, Superior Product in Ireland, Superior Panama here.

Aston Rupee, is the big hope, because he is the KC and All star. Like Orson Allen, the dam line is a proven sire producing family.

Bernardo going pretty well

I reckon he is going great guns

Aussie Secret & Baby Jaycee, Dr Tucker, Got The Torque, Mr Beets and quite a few promising pups on the way that have been winning lately in their maidens and lower grades in fast times

Orson Allen has enough runners on the grounds now to work out his best nicks to get his progeny to 500m

I reckon there are still some nice Group Class dogs in him going forward

They only have 2 tracks left and they only breed with a handful of sires there now, if he is serving say 33% of the brood bitch population due to unlimited services being available over there then he is sure to dominate

There isn't the competition amongst sires and the restriction of services in the USA that we have here in Australia

I think you are being particularly hard on the sire line, it has been notHing short of sensational for the limited amount of semen that was imported here

I am of the opinion that if the dog was here or semen in plentiful supply then KC and All would have dominated here as well

Whether it carries on is another thing, but it seems to be going rather well in its infancy as a sire line

Forgot to mention that another son of KC and All, Aston Kimetto has sired Group winner Aston Velvet and a host of other group and city class dogs over varying distances

PS Superior Panama got a 29.47 Wentworth Park winner last night

Im talking the champion sire, not decent performers. But, dam lines also play there part in in what they offer as well. Aston Rupee, has the Aston Dee Bee litter sister and the sire producing dam line. Along with heavy support. Hes the most likely to prove me right or wrong.

Now they are everywhere

Orson Allen is out of Barcia's sister and will still get some nice dogs but he may also get a son that takes it further from a revived or previously unfashionable damline

Bernardo and Aston Rupee are the ones that have the numbers to take it to the next level

The way I see it there needs something new or very old dam line revived to be the true game changer.

A bit like Fernando Bale, by the obscure Kelso's Fusileer a son of Gable Dodge or even the great Temlee himself who was a grandson of an unfashionable import and whose 2nd dam was a sister to Roman Earl or Brett Lee by the heavily unused Gun Law Osti or Brother Fox by Little Blade

Thats why I say a dog like Orson Allen could end up a game changer but way further down the track

Whether its a coincidence or not, but the greats seem to have a common theme, their own sire wasn't very popular

Or is it that the popular bloodlines have gone full circle and needs a point of difference to make them work again

That's why I find breeding is fascinating, just when you think you have got the answers, something will come out to throw a spanner into the works

As you mentioned, thankfully plenty of breeders, go against the norm and some real gems pop out and value add to the breed! Acacia Park, Brother Fox, Brett Lee, Fernando Bale, Temlee are all as you say.