Good luck over the 330m on Wednesday

Yep, zero. That owner would be straight on the phone to JT or Azz. And rightly so.

The part timer needs dogs who can start fast and run from 390m-460m because thats where the part timer can make money.
For example, I live in Warrnambool. Within 2 hours Ive got 2x390m, a 400m, a 410m, 2x450m and a 460m.
it would be similar for the part timer who lives in Shepparton or Sale.
I'm not looking for 500m dogs because I'd have to travel at least 3 hours to compete with the best dogs in the country, trained by the best trainers.
That is an unrealistic business model.

I am reading a collection of reasonable suggestions put forward although they are mostly concentrating on individual aspects and not the whole package.

Broadly, the Australian greyhound reaches its peak speed in races around the 435m mark. Some peak earlier, some later but we cant be sure whether thats due to the trainer or the dog we should find out and remove the doubt.

There are three other certainties, all verifiable .

1. Short races (

I don't think breeders today know how to do that which is why it's showing.

You need to be able to work out why 500m+ types came out of that Big Flood/Brueghelino litter & others like it for example. I have my theory as to why these things happen but imo too many people rely too much on luck.

Look at the risk people took with FB just because he was an extremely fast dog which is all good, however from a breeding perspective the dam had to do all the nicking as his sire was an outcross. Luckily she was able to give up high percentage breeding parallels to the likes of Brett Lee who was extremely well patronised, Turanza Bale, No Intent etc., it was very lucky for the people who used him just because he was extremely fast, that Chloe Allen was able to step up to the plate like she did, as she had no obvious backup from a niche perspective from dams attached directly to that sireline .

Ryan,

You only need to read greyhound forums over many years to see its not about know how. As opposed to lack of willingness to breed to strength sires. Breeders and more in particular buyers shy away from pups sired by the stronger type of sire,

As for Fernando Bale, there was more than enough history to show his sire line would work with Australia broods - e.g Gable Oscar and Trent Lee, to name but two. And theres plenty of those two angles littered throughout Fernando Bales top offspring. But, again breeders and buyers are far more comfortable with a semi outcrossed sire to a complete outcross. Even Fernando Bale is sired by an import sire that no one wanted in this country...til after Fernando Bale came about! The studmaster was offering buy a Kelsos and get two other sires for free!

Breeders and buyers are their own worst enemy to a lot of what is mentioned here! The same goes on in the thoroughbreds!!

Wouldnt hurt to put incentives and bonus in place for breeders and buyers to encourage breeding for strength. Look at backmarker stayer Rippin Sam siring some good ones. And Burn One Down as well.

Also, the Big Flood litter has the same Flying Penske / Primo Uno cross as Kelsos Outonbale (USA)...N.B that above Fernando Bale/Trent Lee angle as well. Maybe the breeder wanted to add strength blood in Flying Penske into his 300m brood to get 500m racers? But, to do that, needed to use a no G1 wins non-commercial sire! Another factor not supported by breeders and buyers...non-commercial sires! And again why the administrators of this sport need to incentivise breeders and buyers to breed for strength...in the interest of the breed and sport!

For example Group 1 placed stayer Hogmania https:/ CLICK HERE (x Miagi) has the same damline as Brueghelino and the sire of choice Banjo Boy's sire's damline Blue Girl Vane is a 94% breeding parallel to Miagi https:/ CLICK HERE Hogmania's sire.

It's important to be able to recognise the opportunity any particular damline offers for both the sire and the dam and extract those staying genes from those lines in a logical manner and not just looking to stayers as sires to produce distance types.

Thoroughbreds are a little different in that they are no where nearly as intensely bred as greyhounds i.e, only one foal per mating vs up to 16 pups per litter means you need those high percentage intensities in greyhound pedigrees to be hopeful of producing that quality type, whereas you may be able to get away with far less with racehorses.

I realise the question was for Darren but my whole point is assuming there is a distance type from the damline of this short course type of bitch, if you were to breed from one of these types you cld linebreed or recreate that distance types sire through different individuals(such as the Brueghelino example above), with say your sire of choices damline or sire's damline in the hope of breeding a 500m plus type if the niche clicks. This is only one point but a basis from where a breeders thought process shld begin.

Surely this logic is worth a try - it's what Tessio was about, linebreeding through different individuals, especially as the way breeders are currently doing it, certainly doesn't appear to be working. Previously you cld get away with playing the nos game, now you cant, therefore a breeders thought process needs to change if breeders or participants want 500m racing to survive.

When I first saw Fernando Bale pedigree I saw Tesio principle
FB damline a block of three Temlee Sire Strains directly over his damline, Primo UNO, Awesome Assassin.Head Honcho, with an out cross either side of this TSS trio is Silver Ball, Kellso Fusileer. Outcross
Barcia Damline only two TSS directly over damline is GWT, Hallucinate. Prior to these two sires is back to back outcross directly over damline. Barcia is a TSS but his not saturated with Temlee blood. Maybe thats why Barcia so successful.
Fabregas also a block three TSS directly over damline Awesome Assassin, Bearability, Head Honcho, again either side of this trio is outcross. Larkhill Jo, Mets Man
What makes it so difficult for breeders is there are many successful race dogs with 4 TSS straight over damlines. The power and longevity of Temlee blood.
However Please show me a Wheeler bred top knotch racer with 4,5,6, straight TSS directly over a Wheeler damline. PAW obviously adhered to Tesio principle of go into a line maximum three times then out.
So if breeders want 500mt race dogs I suggest they look closely at Wheelers damlines. I strongly recommend to breeders to use an outcross sire line after 3 Temlee Sire Strains directly over a Damline It will help preserve the good genes in damline and maintain vigour and strength.
Fortunately we have discovered Gable Dodge sire line which loves to cross Temlee saturation dams. Fernando Bale sons ( many ) plus many other USA outcross sires.
These new sires are key to success for many damlines. New sires Sennachie, Hard Style Rico, Orson Allen all three just like Barcia Bale they have little TSS directly over damline.

Robert, thats a fair point, but in the Big Flood example, the breeder has shown IMO responsible breeding adding the Flying Penske infusion to try get 500m dogs. The dam of Banjo Boy produced plenty of distance dogs as well. And look at Banjo Boy himself...the sire Vee Man Vane a speedster So the breeder goes from previous 700m dogs to a 500m dog.

NOMINATIONS FURTHER EXTENDED SANDOWN (SAP) SUNDAY 7TH FEBRUARY

04/02/2021
Due to a lack of nominations (36), nominations for the Sandown (SAP) (Twilight) meeting for Sunday 7th February have been further extended.
Nominations will now close tomorrow, Friday 5th February at 8:000AM.

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