Great post Geoff

A very informative summary, thanks.

I would offer one exception to your underlying principles. In practice, I find that far too much cash is going to both the top and bottom ends of the industry and too little to the hard core centre ie good, solid 5th Grades at all tracks.

Incidentally, subsequent to the FY20/21, lets note that VGOBTA did force through significant prize money increases recently although it had to drag GRV yelling and screaming to the altar to bring that about.

But we must take on board the three big trends in greyhound racing:

1. Too few dogs available for too many races ie breeding is staying down at its lowest ever levels while GRV (and others) are filling up the TAB programs at every opportunity. Fields are getting smaller.

2. Financial support is coming primarily from mugs in pubs (or, recently, at home). They treat the racers like three-legged poker machines and lack any useful knowledge of the dogs or the tracks. They are also taking unders and overbetting on favourites. Knowledge and appreciation of the greyhound is bypassed.

3. Race distances are shortening daily, despite occasional attempts (mostly in NSW now) to increase incentives for longer trips.

The forces behind these trends are bureaucratic state authorities (and GA) who, as you say, are concerned only about what they have to report to the Minister. Proper auditing of the success or otherwise of programs and investments does not exist. Cobalt and arsenic are a nonsense. Likewise, Strategic Plans are not worth the fancy paper they are written on because no-one is ever called to account to see if good results were achieved.

Cloudiness is always present as in the recent announcement about improvements to Sandown, Meadows and Sale. What improvements, exactly? And why? Its all a matter of we will tell you what is good for you? NSW is very similar. Lots of announcements, little hard info. (Conversely, SA has been quite good on that count).

In any event, I would have to finish by disputing your thought on the gains needed for low level racing. As I see it every day, lots of resources are going into low standard, low Grade, low class racing Tier 3, Class C, Non-Penalty, Restricted Entry, Grades 6 and 7, etc.

At the other end of the scale, lots of chest thumping amongst clubs goes into ever increasing funds applied to feature events far more than is needed to attract the best dogs and good crowds.

All of which leaves provincial 5th Grades gasping for breath yet they are the guts of the industry.

Major reform is needed. But who is going to sponsor it?

Yes, too many short races, but GRNSW has acknowledged it and is doing a pretty good job of supporting longer races e.g. we don't have short races at WP.

Track maintenance is there too e.g. Muswellbrook. However, I can't see why Wauchope has been relegated to trial track only when its minimum distance is 384m and its one turn grass track. It can co-exist with Taree which is about an hour away.

I mentioned all levels of racing require it as a priority below the top end of City and Group racing and this absolutely includes Provincial Racing, noting that prizemoney for placegetters is particularly poor.

Interesting that the GOTBA supported payments for all runners, to help everyone which actually ranked number 1 preference in the GRV participant survey, was rejected by the GRV spruikers - the winning dog was somehow relegated to second. Figure that out.

Mark

Bloody oath and they have said that they are planning more changes

What Bruce doesn't understand is that 90% of all dogs born will not be city class and maybe 50% of them will not get 500m let alone 700m

Whats the alternative for these dogs? We either make use of them by providing them with a fulfilling career for the dogs themselves and for the people who have invested their care, time and money in them or we burn them, for which our industry has been unfairly chastised for.

He whinges about mug punters fuelling the industry...well 99% of the punters out there are mug punters and couldn't give a frig about the welfare of the greyhound , they will punt on anything as long as its quick and easy. It may as well be wall to wall 30 second greyhound races.. at least we get a decent cut from that from the corporates

Our administrators have to balance the promotion of the industry via our Group racing and specials events like the Million Dollar Chase and the Phoenix, versus providing a competitive environment and a sustainable outcome for the connections of the 90% of greyhounds that will never reach those heights

Then they have to balance all that against welfare and re-homing outcomes for greyhounds when their careers are finished

And that not even mentioning the subsidy of veterinary costs for major track injuries and dental/desexing costs for retirees and reformation of tracks

Honestly, he talks about reforming the industry, he offers no solutions though

Its actually reforming in front of his eyes and he is unable or doesn't want to see it...I think be cause so that he can spin his bullsit in the media to try and remain relevant

Bruce, give up and go and play chess in the park with all the other old retired men and leave the greyhound business to those who are capable of running it

Always fascinating to see what I am thinking - even though it would be more productive to ask or to advance specific arguments for or against of one thing or another. Abuse never works.

By and large, you have mentioned subjects which I have already put on the list. But the real challenge is whether the industry can gain, or regain, a more prominent and positive position in the public arena. If we can do that we will be better able to withstand the nasty situations which pop up from time to time.

On specifics ...

Track standards are poor to worse for two reasons: first because they are not acknowledged to be poor and second because the periodic attempts to improve things are unsound and effectively a waste of money. The normal GRNSW/GRV practice is to announce good things are on the way but never to state exactly what they are, whether they have been
analysed properly, and especially never to assess what the outcomes were. For example, recent jobs at Wenty, Gosford, Newcastle, Horsham and Shepparton have been expensive duds - the evidence is overwhelming. Heaven knows what the Vics will be doing to Sandown and Meadows, as threatened.

I love the mugs' money but is that all there is? What about all the genuine punters who have given the game away - people who used to bet lots and often. Where have they gone?

Then my prime point was to enhance the lot of provincial 5th Grades - given that plenty of opportunities are there for low standard races as well as top gallopers. That is, as well as, not instead of.

As for "a sustainable outcome for the connections", this is sensible as far as it goes but it should not be seen as a guarantee to anyone. In a competitive industry, you either shape up or ship out.

"No solutions"? Really? Start with ridding ourselves of the ancient practice of running every racing code by committee - probably meeting no more often than every fortnight. Install proper commercial structures where office holders are held responsible for outcomes, not just neat processes. The vast majority of significant sports have long gone down that road - reaping rewards on the way. Why should racing be different?

Authorities might be doing some "balancing" but I have been demonstrating that the balance is a long way from ideal.

It's a little bit like the "Million Dollar Chase" to me, except it's worse.

You have to qualify for the the "Chase" at least, this seems (to me)to be a GRV reaction by throwing a pile of money into a race to try and claw back some of the interest in big-time Melbourne racing.

I can tell you it hasn't worked outside Victoria, and I reckon it won't be seen again unless they change the format.

There's kudos in winning the Melbourne Cup, the Egg or the Australian Cup - but this?

The $1,000,000 Chase is a prime example.

Handsome Prince won it, as did Good Odds Harada, for those who don't remember, and they went to stud soon after.

I doubt either have had more than the occasional broodie.

There are certain breed-shaping races; but The Phoenix (if it does survive) will not be one of those - it's just another race put on by the GRV heirachy to pay a sh!t load of prize money to big-time trainers in the loop.

Just my opinion, of course.

Agree

Theres enough highly paid races week to week and or in each quarterly as it is for the app top shelf elite trainers

Imagine spreading that 900k + to multiple tracks to hold 1-3 wins and 4-6 wins and actually help the majority pool of trainers whilst actually using a grade that assist the 5th grade dog instead of throwing em straight up to non grade ?

Pretty sure youd have 3 or 4 local towns a buzz for that month and the industry blue collar section smiling for once ..... ( not out graded and for some decent coin ! )
Breeders bonuses also

No dont do that , its too Much common sense

Lets watch the same trainers roll out the next gun of the month who More then likely had nothing to do with it from whelping to racing !

Makes you wonder , correction , consolidates what you already know ......

Imagine spreading that 900k + to multiple tracks to hold 1-3 wins and 4-6 wins and actually help the majority pool of trainers whilst actually using a grade that assist the 5th grade dog instead of throwing em straight up to non grade ?

Pretty sure youd have 3 or 4 local towns a buzz for that month and the industry blue collar section smiling for once ..... ( not out graded and for some decent coin ! )
Breeders bonuses also

No dont do that , its too Much common sense

Lets watch the same trainers roll out the next gun of the month who More then likely had nothing to do with it from whelping to racing !

Makes you wonder , correction , consolidates what you already know ..."

Good to see you support my thought that it is good solid provincial 5th Grades that warrant more attention as they are the guts of the industry 7 days a week.

Promotion in major provincial centres is also easier and more productive.

One bonus would be that better prizes there could pinch back patronage stolen by the two metro tracks some 15 years ago - meetings which are not always well patronised anyway with many short fields present.

IF you want balance you have to use cash differences to do it.

Bruce

You are playing two sides of the fence at once

On one hand you are saying that there are too many short races and we are throwing money at mediocrity and the poor old punters are getting the raw deal punting on ordinary dogs

On the other hand now you are saying to support low grades races

You can't have it both ways pal

90% of the greyhounds born are destined for low grade races of varying distances and levels

As part of our duty to support all the greyhounds born, the industry is obliged to put on as many races as they can to accommodate these dogs and give them a competitive prize money structure for connections to recover part/all of their investment, rehome the dog and reinvest

The key is incentivising trainers to test their dogs in a higher distance category with greater prize money but still providing good prize money at lower distance levels and ample opportunity to place their dogs, especially younger greyhounds, with a more flatter grading structure

If that can be achieved then the sport would be on a good footing for participants

Sandro,

Absolutely - that's the name of the game. You have to look after all three sectors at the same time. The trickier question is how you do that.

To some extent, GRNSW is helping that now by boosting money for 450m-plus trips around the state. But they left short course money untouched!!!

At the bottom, as I indicated earlier, there are a multitude of opportunities for low standard dogs. Unfortunately, these have been accompanied by a shortening of race distances and there are more of them than ever before. These do not contribute to the status of the breed, nor do they attract the right support from punters, because the form is indifferent and the races are high-interference in nature (bend starts). Ask yourself, what good did that spate of 280m races at Wenty do for the industry? They were all country dogs that should have been boosting fields back home.

The top end is pretty much as good as ever, as indicated by really good performances and hot times - bar those over the long trips. However, the balance is being disturbed by the excessive money thrown at these events - far more than is necessary to achieve quality races and quality dogs.

I won't pin that on the Phoenix so much because that cash was as much windfalls from outside the normal flow. Similarly with the Million Dollars, which was artificially constructed, prize-wise.

My point is that you could take several million dollars out of dozens of big events and redistribute it amongst week to week 5th Grades, thereby raising average standards. I would also shave some out of 300m races to put in the same bag.

We would still be supporting the low level races but simultaneously making provincial club racing more professional and more attractive to investors, spectators and punters alike. It puts the incentive in there in no uncertain terms.

This is no different to other sports today. You must keep an eye on the young and inexperienced because they are the future. But you will not pay to watch them and so they get support only from the club, chook raffles and their parents in various ways. That's life.

Sure, if you ask all these guys with short course dogs if they would like more money, then they are going to say yessir, three bags full, and take the $1500 and run. But that does not make it right and it does not contribute to the advancement of the industry.

It also does no credit to the clubs that meekly agreed to adding new boxes for the short trips simply because some trainers asked for them - or to GRNSW which paid for them. GBOTA is by far the greatest offender.

The underlying principle is that if you make the product more attractive to customers then you will get more of them and the benefits will flow through to participants. That cannot work in the reverse order.

I suspect Mestrov - an outsider, note - has grasped a glimmer of this but it is a minimum five year exercise to make it happen.

Its better than its ever been and allows these participant with these greyhounds to get a far better return for their investment of money and time.

They also fuel the punting machine and we get a serious corporate cut out of that, so no I would leave as is there

We still need to be mindful of the duty to ensure that all greyhounds have a competitive and sustainable racing career so these races and a decent prizemoney structure for them is still required

The Million Dollar chase, Phoenix etc are events that show case the sport and try to attract more high profile participants.

We still need them for publicity purposes as marquee events, not that I totally agree with the Phoenix concept, I much prefer the MDC qualifying concept

When they are established the sponsors should be funding most of the cash

Rome wasn't built in a day though...its a flow on effect

Its good for breeders in selling pups and those participants who also rear and pre-train their own stock to sell, as most of those type of participants, when they are introduced to greyhound racing, want instant race dogs rather than wait out the 12-18 months to get a runner on the track

I think more work could be done to provide training and education facilities for trainers to make it easier for younger and newer participants to become involved in the sport

The more generational our sport becomes, the stronger it will become and the prize money will be a natural accretion because of such acceptance and popularity from our younger participants

e.g. if one 22yo person becomes committed to being a trainer then there will be a posse of similar aged friends who will support that person by way of ownership/breeding in greyhounds, assisting with them with trialling/training or just purely punting on them

It is also important for younger participants to see that they can build a career in greyhound racing by having these large prizes and also be able to sustain themselves when they don't have top class dogs available in their kennel.

The alternative is that they won't want to join the sport and it will die a death.

Its these people that need to be developed and incentivized to be the future of our sport.

If the Phoenix and the MDC achieves those aims, they have done their job

Dont worry but ,the sons and daughters of the Already elite training circles already have the future champions already taken care off bud

No need to keep feeding their masters while the young seed awaits his /hers GRP kennel

Please

Get real and put the money where Poeple deserve it , and supply the simple grading that assists the huge pool of runners instead of using them up against the 1 or 2 non grade elite runners and we all suffer our time and our dogs confidence

Its ok for wenty to change the drop back rule From 3 to 2 again for the elites but no
All the provincial and country Dogs And trainers just cop it !

Enough is enough , put back what most towns And its trainers have put in and Fuk this city squib cycle of shit off !!!