You have to win or accumulate a substantial amount to affect your pension.

Either way there is more than one way to skin a cat

Why change something that's not broken?
everyone goes home happy with cash in their sky rocket.

All it's going to do is make a hell of alot of under the table payments become even more prevalent.

Some training deals go way deeper than just a % based scheem, I know owners that will buy things like kibble and beds ect instead of fees, then split prizmoney. If they win more than a certain amount of races per month the fees are scrapped and the % split changes again.

Going to be some headache's in the near future.....

there will be less money under the bed and more in the bank for centrelink to know about

It's a win/win for everyone.

P.S. Newsflash for the 83 year old trainer........90% of mobile phones now have internet capabilities which he can use for email or banking.......or does he still use the Pony Express too?

mark - my understanding of the ato income data matching system is that it is based around the provision of a tax file number. they may be able to match payments through australian business numbers as is required by professional trainers and grv etc may have to provide detaiils of payments above a certian $- amount bu for the individual battling hobby trainer the system is still very loose

in victoria at least, centrelink use bank statements to determine undisclosed income, if for exeample, you pick up a few races at the time of a centrelink review and cannot provide suitable evidence of expenses relating to the income the whole deposit is treated as income and could affect pension payments for a period i have heard of an instance of a punter having a good win and banking the money he had nothing to offset against the deposit and centrelink reduced his benefits on the strength of the deposit - its a cruel world

we obviously move in different circles

What drugs are you on?? How does the ATO know when i sling my DAD who is a pensioner $500 Cash after a win one night at the races?

The ATO has no idea where 80% of evryones money goes and they never will unless it all goes electronic....

Self centered a-hole's like you should put yourself in an 83 yr old trainers shoes for a minute. There IS people out there that don't have access to the internet via any means at all and just because YOU have it all going on doesn't mean they do.

And just for your info it doesn't matter what sort of payments go in a pensioner's acc., when it reaches a certain ammount they loose a % of their payment from centrelink.

We aren't talking about cash slings....we are talking about official prizemoney payments to the trainers/owners.

Whether these are paid by cash or by EFT....a record is submitted to the ATO.
Whether you have an ABN or not.....whether you have a bank account or not......the payment is recorded as having been made to you.

As long as those payments aren't constant and of significant value then the ATO will ignore them as "hobby" income and no tax will apply....NOR should it affect any pension payments (though Centrelink are bureaucratic a--holes so they may certainly try).

NOTHING will change if payments change from cash to EFT......you'll see.....cos whether you like it or not, that's the way it works now.

AND.....if your father is a registered owner and/or trainer then he is LEGALLY required to declare ALL income already. If he isn't doing that currently (and is therefore guilty of welfare fraud) then I'm sure he won't have an issue continuing to rort the system?

After all.....if he ever gets audited they will find out straight away if he has a financial interest in any dogs....regardless of how payments are made.

Centerlink does want to know when you get money from other sources, but that doesn't automatically mean it will affect your pension.

In Vic they won't pay prizemoney until they have received a tax compliance form, on which you declare if you're a professional or participating as a hobby.

if you are a hobby trainer and has 3 or 4 dogs in work and pick up say 25 to 30k including a few wins in town - And you go to centrelink and declare it, at the very least they included it as a financial asset with a deemed interest rate (regardless of weather you receive that interest rate or not - this can have a direct affect on pension payments and certainly can reduce the "earned income" from other sources that can be earned and still maintain full pension

I`m not knocking Centrelink but just how long ago was it that some of their officers were argueing that the payment toward
power bills and rebates to those puting power back in the grid
because they purchased solar panels should
be treated as income (not for tax purposes but for centrelink purposes)

And I can understand the attitude of some of the more senior in our ranks hiding money under the bed (regardless of the real financial implications of the practice) because these things actually happen

i had an auntie who refused to buy tatslotto tickets because if she ever won the big one she would loose her pension - "security in simplicity"

That aside, the ATO is not interested in punting activity unless the caper is so big and complex (with staff) that they have no choice but to treat it as a business (see David Walsh - MONA etc). Punting winnings are tax free in Australia as a principle. But neither can you deduct expenses incurred while punting.

Centrelink is different in that it assesses any income (assets are a different subject) to check if the amount exceeds the permissable weekly limit. Up to X it will ignore it. Over X it will start reducing your pension - if you have one.

As far as I am aware, Centrelink does not - or cannot - address punting winnings. However, if you won the lottery then you would probably start earning interest, which would attract their involvement.

For a non pensioner - eg a hobby owner-trainer - the ATO will want to assess your income if it is above the legislated limit (something which applies to everybody). If it does that it is also possible to offset your expenses. Further, assuming you have an ABN you are then obliged to assess GST on income and expenses and pay the difference (or get some back).

All this revolves around the definition of "hobby". That's too messy for me to discuss. You need authoritative advice.

The related point is that someone with a small number of racing dogs is going to have several sources of income, including that from buying and selling, petrol money, prize money, etc. He will also have lots of expenses - now go back to the previous para. But note that ATO will have full access to state racing authorities' records (NSW rules were changed recently to make sure that happens).

Hobby or not, if you fluke a $10k prize it is going to separate the men from the boys.